4 ms·

As the article says, Wunderlich reached a conclusion of 37C in the 1800s, and that’s what we’ve used since then. The real problem appears to be that converting

by avalys 4y ago

As the article says, Wunderlich reached a conclusion of 37C in the 1800s, and that’s what we’ve used since then. The real problem appears to be that converting to Fahrenheit and reporting this as “98.6F” suggests an order of magnitude more precision than “37C”. 36.5C would still round to 37 but corresponds to 97.7F.

ncallaway 4y ago
I thought the same, so I tried to find Wunderlich. The only source I could find (https://www.google.com/books/edition/_/3-wHAAAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA1&dq=1868+Carl+Wunderlich https://www.google.com/books/edition/_/3-wHAAAAIAAJ?hl=en&gb...) seems to have Wunderlich reporting "98.6F", and then converting to Celsius: > The average normal temperature of the healthy human body in its interior, or in carefully covered situations on its surface, varies, according to the plan of measurement from 98.6° to 99.5° Fahr. (37° to 37.5° C.). It is about 98.6° in the well-closed axilla, and a few tenths of a degree higher (.5-1½ or 2° Fahr., .7° Fahr. average) in the rectum and vagina. So, as far as I can tell it's not a sig-figs issue in conversion, but the actual original source that produced "98.6°". It almost seems like Wunderlich should've used 37.0° to 37.5°C to be consistent.
- Jakob 4y ago
  That is a translation artifact. The German original cites 37-37.5 degrees Celsius on average: https://archive.org/details/dasverhaltender00wundgoog/page/n16/mode/1up?view=theater https://archive.org/details/dasverhaltender00wundgoog/page/n...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - ncallaway 4y ago
    Gah! Of course Wunderlich didn't write the original in English, and I should've looked for the original in German. I'm a little surprised and disappointed that the translation also translates the units, though. That seems to be stepping just outside the bounds of what I would want translated (at least, in the context of a medical journal or scientific writing). Thanks for that correction!
- antiatheist 4y ago
  Interesting that the original german text uses Celsius as the primary measurement, and provides conversions in Rankine. No mention of Fahrenheit. Funny that people argue over this and some guy named Wunderlich who measured a bunch of asses. Did he write that translation or is Google Books fake news?
  - syrrim 4y ago
    It's obviously not rankine, seeing as it gives a conversion of ~30R = ~40C. Looks like its actually Reaumur: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9aumur_scale https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9aumur_scale
    - antiatheist 4y ago
      Well the more you learn, thanks. Actually makes it even more interesting, Wunderlich and his reaming to get some Reaumurs. What were his actual measurements taken in and how accurate was his thermometer? And who's vaginas has it been in? Curious I get flagged for pointing out the potential measurement inaccuracies and the errs of scientific reproducibility, all while having some humor.
lynx23 4y ago
I have always been taught that 37C is the upper limit, actually bordering on fever. So 36.5C or even a bit lower was always considered healthy and fine.
- FullMetalBitch 4y ago
  Same here, 36-37 normal, over 37 fever.
  - tasuki 4y ago
    Same here, but I've since readjusted :) Currently the top comment says "Basically, in our experience, anything below 38.4 °C could just as well be caused by any of a number of non-fever conditions at something like a 90 % confidence level" ... which is panicky territory for me. But anything under 38 is fine.
    - lynx23 4y ago
      Well, if I have anything above 37.5C, I definitely feel ill. If you call that fever, or something else, feels hypocritical to me. Luckily, this stuff is a continuum. Still remember the 40.6C as a child, as my sense of equilibrium completely went bonkers and I start to hallucinate.
- gpvos 4y ago
  I was brought up with everything under 38 being subfebrile (Dutch "verhoging") which means to watch out, but no need to call the doctor yet.
  - lynx23 4y ago
    I wouldn't call a doctor as long as I am below 40C, but thats maybe just me not wanting to uselessly overload the system... Other people seem to have different attitudes. Come to think of it, our local media just had an article saying doctors are asking patients to not come to the doctors office just because they have a little fever. A similar thing seems to happen in children ambulances. Doctors tell me that 90% of the cases there are just clogging the system and making it harder to find the 10% which really need immediate help.

by avalys 4y ago

ncallaway 4y ago

I thought the same, so I tried to find Wunderlich. The only source I could find (https://www.google.com/books/edition/_/3-wHAAAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA1&dq=1868+Carl+Wunderlich https://www.google.com/books/edition/_/3-wHAAAAIAAJ?hl=en&gb...) seems to have Wunderlich reporting "98.6F", and then converting to Celsius: > The average normal temperature of the healthy human body in its interior, or in carefully covered situations on its surface, varies, according to the plan of measurement from 98.6° to 99.5° Fahr. (37° to 37.5° C.). It is about 98.6° in the well-closed axilla, and a few tenths of a degree higher (.5-1½ or 2° Fahr., .7° Fahr. average) in the rectum and vagina. So, as far as I can tell it's not a sig-figs issue in conversion, but the actual original source that produced "98.6°". It almost seems like Wunderlich should've used 37.0° to 37.5°C to be consistent.

Jakob 4y ago
That is a translation artifact. The German original cites 37-37.5 degrees Celsius on average: https://archive.org/details/dasverhaltender00wundgoog/page/n16/mode/1up?view=theater https://archive.org/details/dasverhaltender00wundgoog/page/n...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ncallaway 4y ago
  Gah! Of course Wunderlich didn't write the original in English, and I should've looked for the original in German. I'm a little surprised and disappointed that the translation also translates the units, though. That seems to be stepping just outside the bounds of what I would want translated (at least, in the context of a medical journal or scientific writing). Thanks for that correction!
antiatheist 4y ago
Interesting that the original german text uses Celsius as the primary measurement, and provides conversions in Rankine. No mention of Fahrenheit. Funny that people argue over this and some guy named Wunderlich who measured a bunch of asses. Did he write that translation or is Google Books fake news?
- syrrim 4y ago
  It's obviously not rankine, seeing as it gives a conversion of ~30R = ~40C. Looks like its actually Reaumur: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9aumur_scale https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9aumur_scale
  - antiatheist 4y ago
    Well the more you learn, thanks. Actually makes it even more interesting, Wunderlich and his reaming to get some Reaumurs. What were his actual measurements taken in and how accurate was his thermometer? And who's vaginas has it been in? Curious I get flagged for pointing out the potential measurement inaccuracies and the errs of scientific reproducibility, all while having some humor.

lynx23 4y ago

I have always been taught that 37C is the upper limit, actually bordering on fever. So 36.5C or even a bit lower was always considered healthy and fine.

FullMetalBitch 4y ago
Same here, 36-37 normal, over 37 fever.
- tasuki 4y ago
  Same here, but I've since readjusted :) Currently the top comment says "Basically, in our experience, anything below 38.4 °C could just as well be caused by any of a number of non-fever conditions at something like a 90 % confidence level" ... which is panicky territory for me. But anything under 38 is fine.
  - lynx23 4y ago
    Well, if I have anything above 37.5C, I definitely feel ill. If you call that fever, or something else, feels hypocritical to me. Luckily, this stuff is a continuum. Still remember the 40.6C as a child, as my sense of equilibrium completely went bonkers and I start to hallucinate.
gpvos 4y ago
I was brought up with everything under 38 being subfebrile (Dutch "verhoging") which means to watch out, but no need to call the doctor yet.
- lynx23 4y ago
  I wouldn't call a doctor as long as I am below 40C, but thats maybe just me not wanting to uselessly overload the system... Other people seem to have different attitudes. Come to think of it, our local media just had an article saying doctors are asking patients to not come to the doctors office just because they have a little fever. A similar thing seems to happen in children ambulances. Doctors tell me that 90% of the cases there are just clogging the system and making it harder to find the 10% which really need immediate help.