7 ms·

Maybe yours is inviting, the one near me redid sections that used to be used by the homeless or unemployed and made them "teen spaces" and directed huge chunks

Maybe yours is inviting, the one near me redid sections that used to be used by the homeless or unemployed and made them "teen spaces" and directed huge chunks of money at turning the space into a community center... in the vein of a JCC or low rent country club for the folks who went to the universities surrounding it. (I haven't been to the SF public library in a while, but the few times I went in as a Mozilla intern the staff were so rude I ended up buying books and selling them at a used bookstore when finished rather than be treated rudely by folks who were within a year or two of me, from the same department I graduated from. Maybe there's a reason people don't respect that space, and it's not just because they're mentally ill and/or down on their luck.)

reaperducer 4y ago
the one near me redid sections that used to be used by the homeless or unemployed and made them "teen spaces" and directed huge chunks of money at turning the space into a community center They adapted and drew in new users. How awful.
- greggarious 4y ago
  My issue is they did this at the expense of other, more disadvantaged groups. I myself have been coming in and out of their space trying to job hunt. (Turns out a common trope is people don't want to socialize with someone who "lives with their parents" or is un/under employed.) So picture you're trying to study for OSCP, and you can't find a space that's quiet. In a library. And what you'd think would happen is someone would go "oh, you're in IT? I know someone looking for that" and solve the issue. And then instead, they treat it like a game -- or worse, start acting purposefully othering. That is my core complaint -- that both those spaces and those resources in the monetary sense divert disproporionately to folks who, frankly, sometimes interact in ways that make me question why they strive so hard to interact with teenagers all day. (Also, it was often not new users -- just bigger, more elaborate programs for the same rich kids from the suburbs who used to pay for special camps and programs... but now having them held in spaces those who couldn't afford them used to do self education.) I hope taking the time and energy to type that out helps. Someone else commented that the library is one of the last noncommercial spaces... I honestly don't have that impression at all. I got the sense if you're not using it to do remote work, or as a community center, but to... check out materials and use them... you are unwelcome unless you're buying stuff (coffee, supplies etc) or part of one of the groups that makes substantial donations when they're not making noise.
  - joxel 4y ago
    Sounds like your library sucks
orange_joe 4y ago
what's the problem with having a part of the library be intended for young people and students? That seems like a better use of the space than having the city turn the library into a daytime homeless shelter.
- hgsgm 4y ago
  Why are homeless shelter so bad that people feel the need to spend the day at the library? Shelter is a far higher priority than reading.
  - Rufbdbskrufb473 4y ago
    I think the main reason isn't the shelter itself, but that being around a large number of fellow homeless people is dangerous because of the rampant mental health issues, drug abuse, and violent crime. The problem is similar to what happened when low income housing (the "projects") concentrated the poor into economic ghettos.
    - bilbo0s 4y ago
      ??? If they're "poor", don't they have to rent or buy low income housing, and so "concentrate into economic ghettos"? There is no policy concentrating the poor with each other, any more than there is a policy that concentrates the rich with each other. The market makes available different products, and different economic market segments purchase different products. With a policy, or without a policy, the poor will live with the poor. And form "economic ghettos".
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- mythhouse 4y ago
  > That seems like a better use of the space than having the city turn the library into a daytime homeless shelter. I prefer it being a homeless shelter, its cold as hell in chicago right now. It would be nice for them to have some some space there. Whenever there is a cold wave we all wonder whats happening to the ppl left out there. It would be nice for them to have one more option. give everyone else peace of mind, lol.
NikolaNovak 4y ago
I mean... That sounds great. Our library too has activities and spaces and it's brilliant. It helps bring in next generation of readers and get everybody engaged and it's awesome :-)
msla 4y ago
It's an important Third Space, and one of the only noncommercial Third Spaces left: A Third Space is a space which isn't home or work which can be used for socialization and potentially other, more goal-directed things, like informal classes. Shopping malls and other commercial spaces can be Third Spaces, but they have a profit motive which incentivizes them to kick people out for "loitering" or otherwise using the space without paying money. Libraries, lacking that incentive, can host more relaxed gatherings without having to make people do things that can be monetized.

reaperducer 4y ago

the one near me redid sections that used to be used by the homeless or unemployed and made them "teen spaces" and directed huge chunks of money at turning the space into a community center They adapted and drew in new users. How awful.

greggarious 4y ago
My issue is they did this at the expense of other, more disadvantaged groups. I myself have been coming in and out of their space trying to job hunt. (Turns out a common trope is people don't want to socialize with someone who "lives with their parents" or is un/under employed.) So picture you're trying to study for OSCP, and you can't find a space that's quiet. In a library. And what you'd think would happen is someone would go "oh, you're in IT? I know someone looking for that" and solve the issue. And then instead, they treat it like a game -- or worse, start acting purposefully othering. That is my core complaint -- that both those spaces and those resources in the monetary sense divert disproporionately to folks who, frankly, sometimes interact in ways that make me question why they strive so hard to interact with teenagers all day. (Also, it was often not new users -- just bigger, more elaborate programs for the same rich kids from the suburbs who used to pay for special camps and programs... but now having them held in spaces those who couldn't afford them used to do self education.) I hope taking the time and energy to type that out helps. Someone else commented that the library is one of the last noncommercial spaces... I honestly don't have that impression at all. I got the sense if you're not using it to do remote work, or as a community center, but to... check out materials and use them... you are unwelcome unless you're buying stuff (coffee, supplies etc) or part of one of the groups that makes substantial donations when they're not making noise.
- joxel 4y ago
  Sounds like your library sucks

orange_joe 4y ago

what's the problem with having a part of the library be intended for young people and students? That seems like a better use of the space than having the city turn the library into a daytime homeless shelter.

hgsgm 4y ago
Why are homeless shelter so bad that people feel the need to spend the day at the library? Shelter is a far higher priority than reading.
- Rufbdbskrufb473 4y ago
  I think the main reason isn't the shelter itself, but that being around a large number of fellow homeless people is dangerous because of the rampant mental health issues, drug abuse, and violent crime. The problem is similar to what happened when low income housing (the "projects") concentrated the poor into economic ghettos.
  - bilbo0s 4y ago
    ??? If they're "poor", don't they have to rent or buy low income housing, and so "concentrate into economic ghettos"? There is no policy concentrating the poor with each other, any more than there is a policy that concentrates the rich with each other. The market makes available different products, and different economic market segments purchase different products. With a policy, or without a policy, the poor will live with the poor. And form "economic ghettos".
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
mythhouse 4y ago
> That seems like a better use of the space than having the city turn the library into a daytime homeless shelter. I prefer it being a homeless shelter, its cold as hell in chicago right now. It would be nice for them to have some some space there. Whenever there is a cold wave we all wonder whats happening to the ppl left out there. It would be nice for them to have one more option. give everyone else peace of mind, lol.

NikolaNovak 4y ago

I mean... That sounds great. Our library too has activities and spaces and it's brilliant. It helps bring in next generation of readers and get everybody engaged and it's awesome :-)

msla 4y ago

It's an important Third Space, and one of the only noncommercial Third Spaces left: A Third Space is a space which isn't home or work which can be used for socialization and potentially other, more goal-directed things, like informal classes. Shopping malls and other commercial spaces can be Third Spaces, but they have a profit motive which incentivizes them to kick people out for "loitering" or otherwise using the space without paying money. Libraries, lacking that incentive, can host more relaxed gatherings without having to make people do things that can be monetized.