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From the paper: > Indeed, a proof-of-stake protocol enjoys many of the benefits, in terms of efficiency, of permissioned protocols; moreover, while it is less
by ChadNauseam 4y ago
From the paper:
> Indeed, a proof-of-stake protocol enjoys many of the benefits, in terms of efficiency, of permissioned protocols; moreover, while it is less centralized than a traditional permissioned protocol, it is not nearly as decentralized as a truly permissionless protocol, such as Bitcoin.
I hear this take often, but I have no idea why it would lead to less decentralization in practice. PoS means that someone needs to transfer you some of the native token before you can participate in consensus, but there's no practical way for a cabal of validators to stop someone from doing that if there's even one person with Eth willing to sell to you. That doesn't really seem different in practice from having to find someone willing to sell you a mining rig.
- TimJRobinson 4y agoSolana isn't more centralized because of PoS, it's because it has extremely high validator requirements (including a 300Mbps internet connection, which rules out running one in most homes). You could argue that PoW has natural attrition of validators because ASICS improve over time which gives more opportunity to enter the market, but that is secondary to the high validator requirements.
- kkielhofner 4y agoI used to run a Solana validator. After compiling the Solana perf libs for my installed version of CUDA Solana consistently used at least 75% of my RTX 3090. For a validator. Solana validator hardware requirements are incredibly high compared to anything else I'm familiar with.
- wmf 4y agoHave you seen what a Bitcoin ASIC miner costs?
- kkielhofner 4y agoOf course. Why (and what) are you trying to compare between Bitcoin mining (PoW) and Solana validating (PoS)? Five or so years ago I did about 25 kW constant load of PoW mining so yes, I'm pretty familiar. In additional to the Solana validator from my original comment I've also run Ethereum and Cardano validators (or rough equivalents). They use a fraction of the compute required by a Solana validator while providing similar rewards and network function. Again, in terms of PoS chain validators the hardware requirements of Solana are significantly higher than any other PoS chain I'm aware of - it's not even close.
- nailer 4y ago> Solana isn't more centralized because of PoS, it's because it has extremely high validator requirements (including a 300Mbps internet connection, which rules out running one in most homes). High validator requirements are a barrier to entry, but Solana has a Nakamoto coefficient (decentralization score) of about 30 (actually more, but this is a couple of months ago) which is more than most - probably all - fast chains. https://youtu.be/5NDs3Il2J3Q?list=RDCMUC9AdQPUe4BdVJ8M9X7wxHUA&t=316 https://youtu.be/5NDs3Il2J3Q?list=RDCMUC9AdQPUe4BdVJ8M9X7wxH...
- darth_avocado 4y ago> but I have no idea why it would lead to less decentralization in practice Because it takes money to have enough ETH to be a validator and therefore, you centralize. It takes 20ETH to be a validator, and at the height of ETH valuation, that roughly translated to about $100k. Not everyone has that kind of money to stake. Plus, it is well know that majority of ETH or any crypto for that matter is held by a small group of people, which further pushes centralized operations.
- rcxdude 4y agoAs opposed to bitcoin where you need to be able to purchase a large quantity of hardware to have any chance of contributing to validation?
- darth_avocado 4y agoI don’t need 100k to get started.
- Veen 4y agoIt takes 32 ETH to be a validator.
- darth_avocado 4y agoOhh yeah my bad. You’re correct, and it makes it even worse.