6 ms·

Why tomatoes and potatoes?

by GoToRO 4y ago

christkv 4y ago
Both are in the Nightshades family which contains a lot of alkaloids that are believed to be a cause of inflammation in some people. I've not seen any real studies about this though.
consumer451 4y ago
Well, it could be placebo effect, but the thinking is/was that: > Nightshade Vegetables > Eggplants, peppers, tomatoes and potatoes are all members of the nightshade family. These vegetables contain the chemical solanine, which some people claim aggravates arthritis pain and inflammation. However, most reports are anecdotal, and while it certainly might be true for some people, there are no scientific studies done to prove that they actually cause inflammation or make symptoms worse, says Kim Larson, a Seattle-based dietitian and Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics Spokesperson. https://www.arthritis.org/health-wellness/healthy-living/nutrition/healthy-eating/best-vegetables-for-arthritis https://www.arthritis.org/health-wellness/healthy-living/nut...
- boplicity 4y ago
  > there are no scientific studies If this treatment could be turned into a drug that had billions of dollars in revenue, as some arthritis drugs have, then there would be endless studies. Sadly, that's not the world we live in. "Lack of studies" in many cases is code for "there's no money to be made here." This is too bad, because many extremely effective and effectively free treatments are ignored by scientists because they can't fund the research.
  - esperent 4y ago
    This oft-repeated view is frustrating, because a huge number of studies on exactly this kind of thing are done. Should there be more? Of course! But the money has to come from somewhere. For a study on potatoes and inflammation it has to come from the taxpayer or a non-profit institute. For a study on a new drug that has a potential to make a huge profit, of course it's much easier to find someone besides those to fund it. There are many problems with the modern medical system but I don't think this aspect is totally broken, definitely not to the degree that nay sayers would have you believe.
    - jackmott 4y ago
      [dead]
  - bqmjjx0kac 4y ago
    > If this treatment could be turned into a drug that had billions of dollars in revenue, as some arthritis drugs have, then there would be endless studies. This is a thought-terminating cliche. It's entirely possible nobody has studied it yet. It's also worth pointing out that drug companies have no incentive to research subtractive diets. They want to find additive treatments that keep symptoms at bay.
    - pasquinelli 4y ago
      > It's also worth pointing out that drug companies have no incentive to research subtractive diets. maybe i'm a bad reader but i believe that's what the person you're replying to is saying
      - bqmjjx0kac 4y ago
        Wow, I wonder if I completely misread the parent. A few sibling comments seem to have made the same misinterpretation. Maybe it was edited after I responded?
    - andreareina 4y ago
      It's also possible that it has been studied, but it only works for a few people so the positive signal is swamped out by all the nonresponders.
  - ABCLAW 4y ago
    Lazy thinking. Governments that provide and purchase healthcare services are also in the business of funding research. In what world do we not see an alignment of interests for studies from nutritionists and dieticians on this topic? We have a LOT of studies on low fodmap diets and their health effects.
    - boplicity 4y ago
      Unfortunately, this thinking came about through my direct experience as someone seeking treatment for a chronic disease. For the specific disease I have, there are endless studies about various drugs, and very, very few studies about non-drug treatments, many of which are known to be effective in the patient community, but lack enough "studies" to be part of the standard treatments recommended by doctors. Instead, we're offered drugs that cost $10,000+ per month. (Drugs which are backed by many, many studies, and yet are only around 25% effective after 2 years.)
      - Broken_Hippo 4y ago
        Drugs which are backed by many, many studies, and yet are only around 25% effective after 2 years First things first: Don't you think that if we had better drugs for whatever you have, that we wouldn't go with that in general? (I know there are exceptions that say that we wouldn't, but these are exceptions). Second: 25% effective is better than nothing. I have MS. The first real drugs - all injections with plenty of side effects - were around 33% effective or something like that and might have reduced severity of the stuff it didn't stop. This wasn't after 2 years, this was the out-of-the-box effectiveness. And it was still worth it. This is because an imperfect solution is better than no solution whatsoever. Know what happens in MS when you have fewer flares? You have less risk of permanent damage. It meant your risk of bad events is less. You have less chance of not being able to walk or not controlling your bowels or having full vision. The drugs were imperfect because our knowledge was (and is) imperfect. That was the best we had at the time. But then again, it was the foundation for modern drugs which are more effective (and easier to take than an at-home injection). Cost is still an issue, but single-payer systems still pay for them because the overall cost is less than the cost of unchecked disease. Most, if not all of the diets advertised for MS have not proven themselves, despite the claims of the folks writing the books (most of which have had other interventions and might have just been lucky with their disease progression, like I have been so far). TLDR: An imperfect drug that helps a little is better than no help at all.
  - jvanderbot 4y ago
    I believe there has been decades of study around diabetes (limit sugar), cardiovascular disease, (limit sat fat), skin cancer (limit sun) and so on. Why is it hard to believe the incentives for simple subtractive prevention isn't there (e.g. limit tomatoes)? More likely the ailment isn't one of the top X deadly things yet.
- gardenfelder 4y ago
  Here's a clustered search on nightshade and arthritis of pubmed https://search.carrot2.org/#/search/pubmed/Nightshade%20and%20arthritis/treemap https://search.carrot2.org/#/search/pubmed/Nightshade%20and%...
  - inthepipe 4y ago
    Interestingly, many of those studies are about the beneficial anti-arthritic impact of consuming Solanum nigrum. That kind of contradicts the “avoid nightshade” advice.
- reilly3000 4y ago
  Inflammation is a tricky one isn’t it? Its level is an emergent property of a lot of factors. You can see how one tissue behaves with the addition of one reagent, but it’s difficult if not impossible to establish cause in a living system. People often talk about the “bathtub” - stressors, allergens, toxins, low sleep, add water to the bathtub, and it drains at the rate it’s able. When there are too many things filling the bathtub at once it overflows, and that is where you start to experience the devastation of inflammation. For me it feels like sinus allergies and extreme fatigue. The only thing that is productive is making space for recovery. If you aren’t able to recuperate, then the inflammation will take over and do it for you. That ends up leading internal scars it’s so intense. Christmas is one of those times where the bathtub is likely flooded. Peak commerce. Rushing to hit year end deadlines. Squeezing in medical appointments before deductibles reset. Dangerous winter conditions, but also everyone is traveling at the same time. Rampant spread of diseases. Massive amounts of food, especially sugars. Low sunlight. Family drama. Irregular schedule. Financial stress. I could go on. If one doesn’t take care to do that things that make the bathtub drain faster (nutrition, activity, rest, water…) you risk big inflammation and internal scarring. This year I asked my family: does anyone actually like surprises? There was unanimous agreement that we all hate it. This allowed some novel flexibility. I started giving gifts in early December, and only had a few on the official day. All of the sizes were figured out, returns processed, and cardboard broken down over 2 weeks. We ended up having 3 quiet Christmas parties with small family groups over 4 days. It was more manageable than the usual tornado. I’ve maintained my standard sleep schedule. It was still all a bit overwhelming, especially for my neurodivergent ass having to socialize 500% more than usual. My bathtub is getting pretty full. So I’m going to go take a bath :)
grugagag 4y ago
Also let's also keep in mind not all inflammation is bad. As an anecdote, I know someone who had rosacea breakout and ended up eliminating tomatoes in particular from her diet and it seemed to do the trick so there should be something in tomatoes that causes inflammation...
- rgrieselhuber 4y ago
  What is an example of good inflammation?
  - austinjp 4y ago
    Inflammation is a crucial part of the body's response to tissue damage, infection, foreign matter, and more. In response, the capillaries become more permeable. This allows white blood cells to leave the blood stream and enter the tissues to combat infection and destroy damaged tissue. The inflammatory response is part of a complex set of self-defense and repair mechanisms. Sometimes these go wrong, but without them you'd most certainly be dead.
    - inthepipe 4y ago
      Tissue damage, infection, foreign matter, etc are all bad. Inflation might help, but I think you’d need to show it’d be helpful without the presence of some worse thing to truly call it beneficial.
      - upsidesinclude 4y ago
        Inflammation is part of the immune response. It is beneficial when wounded and that's when the local body should become inflamed. Chronic inflammation is not beneficial. You are conflating the two
        inthepipe 4y ago
        I’m not conflating anything. You’re saying the inflammation is beneficial, but what you’re describing is really a “lesser of two evils” situation, e.g. it’s better to have inflammation than it is to bleed out from a wound. But the best thing would be not to get a wound in the first place.

Why tomatoes and potatoes?

by GoToRO 4y ago

Why tomatoes and potatoes?

Both are in the Nightshades family which contains a lot of alkaloids that are believed to be a cause of inflammation in some people. I've not seen any real studies about this though.

consumer451 4y ago

Well, it could be placebo effect, but the thinking is/was that: > Nightshade Vegetables > Eggplants, peppers, tomatoes and potatoes are all members of the nightshade family. These vegetables contain the chemical solanine, which some people claim aggravates arthritis pain and inflammation. However, most reports are anecdotal, and while it certainly might be true for some people, there are no scientific studies done to prove that they actually cause inflammation or make symptoms worse, says Kim Larson, a Seattle-based dietitian and Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics Spokesperson. https://www.arthritis.org/health-wellness/healthy-living/nutrition/healthy-eating/best-vegetables-for-arthritis https://www.arthritis.org/health-wellness/healthy-living/nut...

boplicity 4y ago
> there are no scientific studies If this treatment could be turned into a drug that had billions of dollars in revenue, as some arthritis drugs have, then there would be endless studies. Sadly, that's not the world we live in. "Lack of studies" in many cases is code for "there's no money to be made here." This is too bad, because many extremely effective and effectively free treatments are ignored by scientists because they can't fund the research.
- esperent 4y ago
  This oft-repeated view is frustrating, because a huge number of studies on exactly this kind of thing are done. Should there be more? Of course! But the money has to come from somewhere. For a study on potatoes and inflammation it has to come from the taxpayer or a non-profit institute. For a study on a new drug that has a potential to make a huge profit, of course it's much easier to find someone besides those to fund it. There are many problems with the modern medical system but I don't think this aspect is totally broken, definitely not to the degree that nay sayers would have you believe.
  - jackmott 4y ago
    [dead]
- bqmjjx0kac 4y ago
  > If this treatment could be turned into a drug that had billions of dollars in revenue, as some arthritis drugs have, then there would be endless studies. This is a thought-terminating cliche. It's entirely possible nobody has studied it yet. It's also worth pointing out that drug companies have no incentive to research subtractive diets. They want to find additive treatments that keep symptoms at bay.
  - pasquinelli 4y ago
    > It's also worth pointing out that drug companies have no incentive to research subtractive diets. maybe i'm a bad reader but i believe that's what the person you're replying to is saying
    - bqmjjx0kac 4y ago
      Wow, I wonder if I completely misread the parent. A few sibling comments seem to have made the same misinterpretation. Maybe it was edited after I responded?
  - andreareina 4y ago
    It's also possible that it has been studied, but it only works for a few people so the positive signal is swamped out by all the nonresponders.
- ABCLAW 4y ago
  Lazy thinking. Governments that provide and purchase healthcare services are also in the business of funding research. In what world do we not see an alignment of interests for studies from nutritionists and dieticians on this topic? We have a LOT of studies on low fodmap diets and their health effects.
  - boplicity 4y ago
    Unfortunately, this thinking came about through my direct experience as someone seeking treatment for a chronic disease. For the specific disease I have, there are endless studies about various drugs, and very, very few studies about non-drug treatments, many of which are known to be effective in the patient community, but lack enough "studies" to be part of the standard treatments recommended by doctors. Instead, we're offered drugs that cost $10,000+ per month. (Drugs which are backed by many, many studies, and yet are only around 25% effective after 2 years.)
    - Broken_Hippo 4y ago
      Drugs which are backed by many, many studies, and yet are only around 25% effective after 2 years First things first: Don't you think that if we had better drugs for whatever you have, that we wouldn't go with that in general? (I know there are exceptions that say that we wouldn't, but these are exceptions). Second: 25% effective is better than nothing. I have MS. The first real drugs - all injections with plenty of side effects - were around 33% effective or something like that and might have reduced severity of the stuff it didn't stop. This wasn't after 2 years, this was the out-of-the-box effectiveness. And it was still worth it. This is because an imperfect solution is better than no solution whatsoever. Know what happens in MS when you have fewer flares? You have less risk of permanent damage. It meant your risk of bad events is less. You have less chance of not being able to walk or not controlling your bowels or having full vision. The drugs were imperfect because our knowledge was (and is) imperfect. That was the best we had at the time. But then again, it was the foundation for modern drugs which are more effective (and easier to take than an at-home injection). Cost is still an issue, but single-payer systems still pay for them because the overall cost is less than the cost of unchecked disease. Most, if not all of the diets advertised for MS have not proven themselves, despite the claims of the folks writing the books (most of which have had other interventions and might have just been lucky with their disease progression, like I have been so far). TLDR: An imperfect drug that helps a little is better than no help at all.
- jvanderbot 4y ago
  I believe there has been decades of study around diabetes (limit sugar), cardiovascular disease, (limit sat fat), skin cancer (limit sun) and so on. Why is it hard to believe the incentives for simple subtractive prevention isn't there (e.g. limit tomatoes)? More likely the ailment isn't one of the top X deadly things yet.
gardenfelder 4y ago
Here's a clustered search on nightshade and arthritis of pubmed https://search.carrot2.org/#/search/pubmed/Nightshade%20and%20arthritis/treemap https://search.carrot2.org/#/search/pubmed/Nightshade%20and%...
- inthepipe 4y ago
  Interestingly, many of those studies are about the beneficial anti-arthritic impact of consuming Solanum nigrum. That kind of contradicts the “avoid nightshade” advice.
reilly3000 4y ago
Inflammation is a tricky one isn’t it? Its level is an emergent property of a lot of factors. You can see how one tissue behaves with the addition of one reagent, but it’s difficult if not impossible to establish cause in a living system. People often talk about the “bathtub” - stressors, allergens, toxins, low sleep, add water to the bathtub, and it drains at the rate it’s able. When there are too many things filling the bathtub at once it overflows, and that is where you start to experience the devastation of inflammation. For me it feels like sinus allergies and extreme fatigue. The only thing that is productive is making space for recovery. If you aren’t able to recuperate, then the inflammation will take over and do it for you. That ends up leading internal scars it’s so intense. Christmas is one of those times where the bathtub is likely flooded. Peak commerce. Rushing to hit year end deadlines. Squeezing in medical appointments before deductibles reset. Dangerous winter conditions, but also everyone is traveling at the same time. Rampant spread of diseases. Massive amounts of food, especially sugars. Low sunlight. Family drama. Irregular schedule. Financial stress. I could go on. If one doesn’t take care to do that things that make the bathtub drain faster (nutrition, activity, rest, water…) you risk big inflammation and internal scarring. This year I asked my family: does anyone actually like surprises? There was unanimous agreement that we all hate it. This allowed some novel flexibility. I started giving gifts in early December, and only had a few on the official day. All of the sizes were figured out, returns processed, and cardboard broken down over 2 weeks. We ended up having 3 quiet Christmas parties with small family groups over 4 days. It was more manageable than the usual tornado. I’ve maintained my standard sleep schedule. It was still all a bit overwhelming, especially for my neurodivergent ass having to socialize 500% more than usual. My bathtub is getting pretty full. So I’m going to go take a bath :)

grugagag 4y ago

Also let's also keep in mind not all inflammation is bad. As an anecdote, I know someone who had rosacea breakout and ended up eliminating tomatoes in particular from her diet and it seemed to do the trick so there should be something in tomatoes that causes inflammation...

rgrieselhuber 4y ago
What is an example of good inflammation?
- austinjp 4y ago
  Inflammation is a crucial part of the body's response to tissue damage, infection, foreign matter, and more. In response, the capillaries become more permeable. This allows white blood cells to leave the blood stream and enter the tissues to combat infection and destroy damaged tissue. The inflammatory response is part of a complex set of self-defense and repair mechanisms. Sometimes these go wrong, but without them you'd most certainly be dead.
  - inthepipe 4y ago
    Tissue damage, infection, foreign matter, etc are all bad. Inflation might help, but I think you’d need to show it’d be helpful without the presence of some worse thing to truly call it beneficial.
    - upsidesinclude 4y ago
      Inflammation is part of the immune response. It is beneficial when wounded and that's when the local body should become inflamed. Chronic inflammation is not beneficial. You are conflating the two
      - inthepipe 4y ago
        I’m not conflating anything. You’re saying the inflammation is beneficial, but what you’re describing is really a “lesser of two evils” situation, e.g. it’s better to have inflammation than it is to bleed out from a wound. But the best thing would be not to get a wound in the first place.