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Kind of insane how the crypto industry keeps sweeping these hacks under the rug because "code is law". Except that they never actually asked the law if code ca

by spaceman_2020 4y ago

Kind of insane how the crypto industry keeps sweeping these hacks under the rug because "code is law". Except that they never actually asked the law if code can be law. They just...decided among themselves. And somehow expect the law to follow along. Personally happy that these cases are now going to court. At least we'll get some clarity on whether code can actually be the law. Or if law is ultimately, well, the law.

wmf 4y ago
There's plenty of precedent for self-regulation, like how the MPAA ratings system was created specifically to prevent Congress from regulating movies. Congress's time is valuable (lol) so they prefer to focus on problems that won't be solved without them.
- spaceman_2020 4y ago
  I'm all for self-regulation but you have to draw a few lines if people's money or health are being targeted.
  - wmf 4y ago
    DeFi should probably be limited to qualified investors in the US to reduce scamming.
    - spaceman_2020 4y ago
      Nah, that just perpetuates the existing system and prices out the little guy.
bbbbb5 4y ago
It's worth noting that the indictment seems to focus on very specific technical details of how this hack happened, rather than trying to suggest that hacking smart contracts would be broadly illegal. It seems that exploiting a smart contract in a way that doesn't involve market manipulation might still be fine, or not. Who knows?
- from 4y ago
  Commodities fraud isn't even considered "specified unlawful activity" so they can't stack on money laundering either. Given Avraham's resources this will probably spend a few years in appeals court.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > It’s worth noting that the indictment seems to focus on very specific technical details of how this hack happened, rather than trying to suggest that hacking smart contracts would be broadly illegal. Indictments are about specific crimes, not broad generalities. > It seems that exploiting a smart contract in a way that doesn’t involve market manipulation might still be fine, or not. “Exploiting a smart contract” isn’t a specific offense, and some instances might be legal. But even if they aren’t specifically “fraud” or “market manipulation” as is charged here, they can also “theft of service”, “theft by false pretenses”, or any of a wide variety of other crimes and torts.
  - bbbbb5 4y ago
    Yeah, my main point is that it remains far from clear as to how the government would approach a situation like the 2016 DAO hack. >“Exploiting a smart contract” isn’t a specific offense, and some instances might be legal. Exactly, there does not seem to be easy catch-alls here like wire fraud or unauthorized access.
miracle2k 4y ago
> Except that they never actually asked the law if code can be law. They just...decided among themselves. And somehow expect the law to follow along. The premier smart contract platform, when they had a bug in a popular dApp, summarily forked their chain to fix it. It's almost like the popular "code is not law, the law is the law" is not a serious point. If anything, in the "crypto industry", hacks are widely considered illegal (market manipulation like in this case, less so). The ecosystem however is purpose-built on pseudonymous bearer assets, so that the law can be the law, and the code can be fact.

wmf 4y ago

There's plenty of precedent for self-regulation, like how the MPAA ratings system was created specifically to prevent Congress from regulating movies. Congress's time is valuable (lol) so they prefer to focus on problems that won't be solved without them.

spaceman_2020 4y ago
I'm all for self-regulation but you have to draw a few lines if people's money or health are being targeted.
- wmf 4y ago
  DeFi should probably be limited to qualified investors in the US to reduce scamming.
  - spaceman_2020 4y ago
    Nah, that just perpetuates the existing system and prices out the little guy.

bbbbb5 4y ago

It's worth noting that the indictment seems to focus on very specific technical details of how this hack happened, rather than trying to suggest that hacking smart contracts would be broadly illegal. It seems that exploiting a smart contract in a way that doesn't involve market manipulation might still be fine, or not. Who knows?

from 4y ago
Commodities fraud isn't even considered "specified unlawful activity" so they can't stack on money laundering either. Given Avraham's resources this will probably spend a few years in appeals court.
dragonwriter 4y ago
> It’s worth noting that the indictment seems to focus on very specific technical details of how this hack happened, rather than trying to suggest that hacking smart contracts would be broadly illegal. Indictments are about specific crimes, not broad generalities. > It seems that exploiting a smart contract in a way that doesn’t involve market manipulation might still be fine, or not. “Exploiting a smart contract” isn’t a specific offense, and some instances might be legal. But even if they aren’t specifically “fraud” or “market manipulation” as is charged here, they can also “theft of service”, “theft by false pretenses”, or any of a wide variety of other crimes and torts.
- bbbbb5 4y ago
  Yeah, my main point is that it remains far from clear as to how the government would approach a situation like the 2016 DAO hack. >“Exploiting a smart contract” isn’t a specific offense, and some instances might be legal. Exactly, there does not seem to be easy catch-alls here like wire fraud or unauthorized access.

miracle2k 4y ago

> Except that they never actually asked the law if code can be law. They just...decided among themselves. And somehow expect the law to follow along. The premier smart contract platform, when they had a bug in a popular dApp, summarily forked their chain to fix it. It's almost like the popular "code is not law, the law is the law" is not a serious point. If anything, in the "crypto industry", hacks are widely considered illegal (market manipulation like in this case, less so). The ecosystem however is purpose-built on pseudonymous bearer assets, so that the law can be the law, and the code can be fact.