4 ms·

What happens if/when the EU fails to update their laws on, say, USB-C mandates? I agree the short term legal framework seems to have benefits, but I fear for t

by cdolan 4y ago

What happens if/when the EU fails to update their laws on, say, USB-C mandates? I agree the short term legal framework seems to have benefits, but I fear for the long term impact. Laws are RARELY every taken off the books. Government doesn’t shrink

smoldesu 4y ago
What's the long-term fear, here? That Apple will suddenly reverse their stance on iPhone transfer speeds, and design a new super-fast transfer spec for iPhone in 2025? They can still do that. They can do it the same way they did with Thunderbolt, where they work with other industry leaders to propose a standard to the USB-IF consortium. Once everyone is happy with it, then they can roll it out to their products. These are the standards that should be designed democratically, not privately. All this nail-biting around USB standardization is worrying in the wrong direction. It's like saying that all of our cell carriers should get to choose whatever spectrum they want, because if we don't give them freedom then we might be stifling their innovation. Sometimes, there are more important things to worry about.
- soneil 4y ago
  They could also theoretically do lightning-3 as an alt-channel over usb-c. The regulation is concerned with charging, not data.
- cdolan 4y ago
  I think your spectrum analogy misses the mark, here’s why: USB-C is a misnomer. There are actually about 10 different variations, which all conform to the same physical port constraints, but have drastically different behaviors in terms of charging, data transport, and more. By mandating a USB-C port, I fear we’ve created a pointless monopoly on the design that will stifle future innovation. Is USB-C the “best port in the world”? It’s 2022/2023, the answer may be “yes”… but MicroUSB was “the best port in the world” in 2007-2008, and its downright awful now. Spectrum is different as it’s a physical medium that the government regulates to ensure the flow of information within that physical medium. Thats more akin to water management or other physical resources, and outside the scope of incentive management for innovations sake.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    Is it really? Why shouldn't we also regulate connectors as a physical medium to ensure the flow of information and electricity between compatible devices? It's a ridiculous comparison, but only because Apple's blatant failure to innovate brought us here. We're not even forcing them to use Thunderbolt or USB-3.0 speeds, it just needs to plug-in the same as other phones.
    - judge2020 4y ago
      > Why shouldn't we also regulate connectors as a physical medium to ensure the flow of information and electricity between compatible devices? I think you misunderstand - regulating the physical medium (the actual shape of the USB-C receptacle and outlet) is all we've done. There is no regulation on how you label/market cables and ports for their capabilities, so there is a 'wild west' right now in that your device has a USB-C plug, but certain features might not be supported by each end of the device, or even the cable. For example, unless you got a pretty nice USB-C<->DP monitor included with your display, your run-of-the-mill $10 Amazon USB-C->DP might not work due to strict signal integrity (read: cable build quality) requirements when MST is absent[0]. 0: https://sebvance.medium.com/everything-you-need-to-know-about-macbook-pros-and-their-lack-of-displayport-mst-multi-stream-98ce33d64af4 https://sebvance.medium.com/everything-you-need-to-know-abou...
viraptor 4y ago
They already did from micro USB to USB-C. There's a whole process for updates built into this regulation already. It's not a USB-C mandate. It's a "talk to each other and figure out one solution" mandate. USB-C is just the current result.
- cdolan 4y ago
  Those are good points that I was not aware of. In the literature I read it was focused on “USB-C” as the standard. Do you have any links to where we can read more?
  - black3r 4y ago
    The current standard is USB-C and there is a list of all device types that need to use the standard from now on. Afterwards, the European Commission shall do market research every 5 years and have the power to update the device type list and charging standard on its own. Source: the text version of the adopted directive (with translations into all 24 official languages available in the top right corner) - https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-9-2022-0338_EN.html https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-9-2022-0338...

by cdolan 4y ago

smoldesu 4y ago

What's the long-term fear, here? That Apple will suddenly reverse their stance on iPhone transfer speeds, and design a new super-fast transfer spec for iPhone in 2025? They can still do that. They can do it the same way they did with Thunderbolt, where they work with other industry leaders to propose a standard to the USB-IF consortium. Once everyone is happy with it, then they can roll it out to their products. These are the standards that should be designed democratically, not privately. All this nail-biting around USB standardization is worrying in the wrong direction. It's like saying that all of our cell carriers should get to choose whatever spectrum they want, because if we don't give them freedom then we might be stifling their innovation. Sometimes, there are more important things to worry about.

soneil 4y ago
They could also theoretically do lightning-3 as an alt-channel over usb-c. The regulation is concerned with charging, not data.
cdolan 4y ago
I think your spectrum analogy misses the mark, here’s why: USB-C is a misnomer. There are actually about 10 different variations, which all conform to the same physical port constraints, but have drastically different behaviors in terms of charging, data transport, and more. By mandating a USB-C port, I fear we’ve created a pointless monopoly on the design that will stifle future innovation. Is USB-C the “best port in the world”? It’s 2022/2023, the answer may be “yes”… but MicroUSB was “the best port in the world” in 2007-2008, and its downright awful now. Spectrum is different as it’s a physical medium that the government regulates to ensure the flow of information within that physical medium. Thats more akin to water management or other physical resources, and outside the scope of incentive management for innovations sake.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  Is it really? Why shouldn't we also regulate connectors as a physical medium to ensure the flow of information and electricity between compatible devices? It's a ridiculous comparison, but only because Apple's blatant failure to innovate brought us here. We're not even forcing them to use Thunderbolt or USB-3.0 speeds, it just needs to plug-in the same as other phones.
  - judge2020 4y ago
    > Why shouldn't we also regulate connectors as a physical medium to ensure the flow of information and electricity between compatible devices? I think you misunderstand - regulating the physical medium (the actual shape of the USB-C receptacle and outlet) is all we've done. There is no regulation on how you label/market cables and ports for their capabilities, so there is a 'wild west' right now in that your device has a USB-C plug, but certain features might not be supported by each end of the device, or even the cable. For example, unless you got a pretty nice USB-C<->DP monitor included with your display, your run-of-the-mill $10 Amazon USB-C->DP might not work due to strict signal integrity (read: cable build quality) requirements when MST is absent[0]. 0: https://sebvance.medium.com/everything-you-need-to-know-about-macbook-pros-and-their-lack-of-displayport-mst-multi-stream-98ce33d64af4 https://sebvance.medium.com/everything-you-need-to-know-abou...

viraptor 4y ago

They already did from micro USB to USB-C. There's a whole process for updates built into this regulation already. It's not a USB-C mandate. It's a "talk to each other and figure out one solution" mandate. USB-C is just the current result.

cdolan 4y ago
Those are good points that I was not aware of. In the literature I read it was focused on “USB-C” as the standard. Do you have any links to where we can read more?
- black3r 4y ago
  The current standard is USB-C and there is a list of all device types that need to use the standard from now on. Afterwards, the European Commission shall do market research every 5 years and have the power to update the device type list and charging standard on its own. Source: the text version of the adopted directive (with translations into all 24 official languages available in the top right corner) - https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-9-2022-0338_EN.html https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-9-2022-0338...