3 ms·

How expensive would it be to run source water to an entire neighborhood for heating and cooling? Have one heating/cooling plant and per building heat pumps.

projectazorian 4y ago
This is called district heating and is not uncommon, some cities in the US have it (it’s used in Manhattan for example) but it’s more popular in Europe and Asia, especially in Scandinavia and former socialist countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_heating https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_heating
- hooverd 4y ago
  Lots of colleges have steam tunnels too. With individual heat pumps you probably lose some efficiency but the source doesn't have to get as hot or as cold. Doing a residential retrofit sounds like herding cats but in somewhere like Phoenix or Tucson the efficiency gains might be worth it.
mlsu 4y ago
This is frequently done when you have a (very hot) boiler in a power plant or chemical process nearby. A natural gas turbine can't generate electricity very efficiently on even 212f steam, so instead of building some gigantic turbine to get that last bit out, you route the waste heat into a nearby neighborhood.
shagie 4y ago
You are likely interested in Drake Landing in Canada. https://www.dlsc.ca/ https://www.dlsc.ca/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_Landing_Solar_Community https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_Landing_Solar_Community https://www.hpbmagazine.org/content/uploads/2020/04/15Su-Drake-Landing-Solar-Community-Alberta-Canada.pdf https://www.hpbmagazine.org/content/uploads/2020/04/15Su-Dra... It uses solar in the summer to charge a thermal bore which is discharged in the winter. That provides nearly all of the winter heat from the seasonal thermal energy storage. > In 2012 the installation achieved a world record solar fraction of 97%; that is, providing that amount of the community's heating requirements with solar energy over a one-year time span. The third link (the pdf) is the case study from High Performing Buildings on the design of the community. > At first glance, the tidy two-story houses lining two streets in a Canadian suburb look much like the thousands of other homes that surround them; but a district heating system that stores summer’s abundant solar energy to heat the homes during winter makes this community a global pioneer in heat storage technologies for residential space heating. Drake Landing Solar Community proves that such a system can deliver a large fraction (over 90%) of space heating with solar energy in a cold climate. The builder designed the 52 detached single-family houses to appeal to mainstream home buyers who want energy efficiency without sacrificing aesthetic appeal. > Drake Landing provides a real-world example of how conventional heat- ing fuel consumption for space heating can be nearly eliminated, reducing greenhouse gas emissions by more than 5.5 tons per house annually. This is made possible in the harsh 9,027 heat- ing degree day climate by using solar heat collectors with seasonal heat storage, energy-efficient house design and construction, and a low temperature district heating network to distribute the heat to the homes. Note that this isn't more cost efficient - it needs to scale up quite a bit more. > The project development team understood from the outset that the Drake Landing system was too small to be economically competitive with the extremely low cost of natural gas. However, subsequent feasibility studies show that larger systems of similar design can deliver solar energy at about half of the cost compared to Drake Landing, and additional work is underway to improve cost performance further.

projectazorian 4y ago

This is called district heating and is not uncommon, some cities in the US have it (it’s used in Manhattan for example) but it’s more popular in Europe and Asia, especially in Scandinavia and former socialist countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_heating https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_heating

hooverd 4y ago
Lots of colleges have steam tunnels too. With individual heat pumps you probably lose some efficiency but the source doesn't have to get as hot or as cold. Doing a residential retrofit sounds like herding cats but in somewhere like Phoenix or Tucson the efficiency gains might be worth it.

mlsu 4y ago

This is frequently done when you have a (very hot) boiler in a power plant or chemical process nearby. A natural gas turbine can't generate electricity very efficiently on even 212f steam, so instead of building some gigantic turbine to get that last bit out, you route the waste heat into a nearby neighborhood.

shagie 4y ago

You are likely interested in Drake Landing in Canada. https://www.dlsc.ca/ https://www.dlsc.ca/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_Landing_Solar_Community https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_Landing_Solar_Community https://www.hpbmagazine.org/content/uploads/2020/04/15Su-Drake-Landing-Solar-Community-Alberta-Canada.pdf https://www.hpbmagazine.org/content/uploads/2020/04/15Su-Dra... It uses solar in the summer to charge a thermal bore which is discharged in the winter. That provides nearly all of the winter heat from the seasonal thermal energy storage. > In 2012 the installation achieved a world record solar fraction of 97%; that is, providing that amount of the community's heating requirements with solar energy over a one-year time span. The third link (the pdf) is the case study from High Performing Buildings on the design of the community. > At first glance, the tidy two-story houses lining two streets in a Canadian suburb look much like the thousands of other homes that surround them; but a district heating system that stores summer’s abundant solar energy to heat the homes during winter makes this community a global pioneer in heat storage technologies for residential space heating. Drake Landing Solar Community proves that such a system can deliver a large fraction (over 90%) of space heating with solar energy in a cold climate. The builder designed the 52 detached single-family houses to appeal to mainstream home buyers who want energy efficiency without sacrificing aesthetic appeal. > Drake Landing provides a real-world example of how conventional heat- ing fuel consumption for space heating can be nearly eliminated, reducing greenhouse gas emissions by more than 5.5 tons per house annually. This is made possible in the harsh 9,027 heat- ing degree day climate by using solar heat collectors with seasonal heat storage, energy-efficient house design and construction, and a low temperature district heating network to distribute the heat to the homes. Note that this isn't more cost efficient - it needs to scale up quite a bit more. > The project development team understood from the outset that the Drake Landing system was too small to be economically competitive with the extremely low cost of natural gas. However, subsequent feasibility studies show that larger systems of similar design can deliver solar energy at about half of the cost compared to Drake Landing, and additional work is underway to improve cost performance further.