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I notice you ignored all the actually difficult items on the list there. You know, the ones where the Dunning-Kruger brigade are a liability and mistakes mean

I notice you ignored all the actually difficult items on the list there. You know, the ones where the Dunning-Kruger brigade are a liability and mistakes mean people die.

ajkjk 4y ago
I didn't ignore all the difficult ones. But fine. Bricklaying is a few days to learn on the job, tops. Conning a ship almost certainly means captaining a boat which takes some experience for sure, probably a few months. Basic first aid, including setting a bone, is a week long course. Etc. I can't imagine why you went to the trouble of trying to make them all sound like complicated many-year projects, but it's a ridiculous take and I doubt anyone else will read it that way.
- YurgenJurgensen 4y ago
  Are you seriously suggesting that Robert A. Heinlein, former naval officer, wouldn't care about the distinction between a ship and a boat? And you still ignored the two most difficult ones.
  - ajkjk 4y ago
    I think he knows the difference, but surely meant the life skill of captaining something rather than the literal many-years-to-acquire technical skill of doing so, because the former makes sense and the latter doesn't. Which two? Designing a building I see I skipped. That seems pretty attainable, he obviously didn't mean 'be a trained architect and building engineer' like you interpreted it. People in charge of organizations sometimes have to design buildings (probably much moreso in the past though). So like, 'kitchen goes here' etc level stuff. I'm not saying I agree with the whole quote. I just don't see the point of misinterpreting it so aggressively.
    - YurgenJurgensen 4y ago
      He specifically said ‘conn a ship’. Conning is the specific highly technical act of directing the ship while in motion. Navy types are known to be sticklers for precise use of naval terms, so we have no reason to assume it doesn’t mean exactly what it says. The task you are describing is not design; it’s specification or briefing at best. Heinlein was also an aeronautical engineer. Engineering is are also a profession where imprecise language costs lives. The hardest one was “plan an invasion”, but I’m sure you’re about to tell me that a former naval officer and author of some of the most famous pieces of military science fiction didn’t really mean “plan an invasion” when he said it, or that despite modern history being full of poorly-planned invasions (and there’s one going on right now), actually it’s something you can learn on a three day course.
      - ajkjk 4y ago
        Oh, I totally missed that one. Yeah, sounds like "conn a ship" and "plan an invasion" are actually him just being weirdly militaristic. I guess he thinks everyone should have some career in the military for a while No matter. My complain was that for some reason you were making the other ones sound like they take a long time to learn, which is obviously absurd.
      - dsq 4y ago
        I think his intention was a spaceship/starship. He was a science fiction writer, after all, and most of the Lazarus Long stories take place elsewhere in the Galaxy. A starship can be more or less complicated than a maritime vessel, depending on the onboard computer. Maybe as simple as saying “take me to a nice planet to relax”.
  - Slow_Hand 4y ago
    If you want anyone to address the meat of your question simply state what you believe to be the two hardest tasks instead of being vague and making people guess. The conversation would be better for it.

I notice you ignored all the actually difficult items on the list there. You know, the ones where the Dunning-Kruger brigade are a liability and mistakes mean people die.

ajkjk 4y ago

I didn't ignore all the difficult ones. But fine. Bricklaying is a few days to learn on the job, tops. Conning a ship almost certainly means captaining a boat which takes some experience for sure, probably a few months. Basic first aid, including setting a bone, is a week long course. Etc. I can't imagine why you went to the trouble of trying to make them all sound like complicated many-year projects, but it's a ridiculous take and I doubt anyone else will read it that way.

YurgenJurgensen 4y ago
Are you seriously suggesting that Robert A. Heinlein, former naval officer, wouldn't care about the distinction between a ship and a boat? And you still ignored the two most difficult ones.
- ajkjk 4y ago
  I think he knows the difference, but surely meant the life skill of captaining something rather than the literal many-years-to-acquire technical skill of doing so, because the former makes sense and the latter doesn't. Which two? Designing a building I see I skipped. That seems pretty attainable, he obviously didn't mean 'be a trained architect and building engineer' like you interpreted it. People in charge of organizations sometimes have to design buildings (probably much moreso in the past though). So like, 'kitchen goes here' etc level stuff. I'm not saying I agree with the whole quote. I just don't see the point of misinterpreting it so aggressively.
  - YurgenJurgensen 4y ago
    He specifically said ‘conn a ship’. Conning is the specific highly technical act of directing the ship while in motion. Navy types are known to be sticklers for precise use of naval terms, so we have no reason to assume it doesn’t mean exactly what it says. The task you are describing is not design; it’s specification or briefing at best. Heinlein was also an aeronautical engineer. Engineering is are also a profession where imprecise language costs lives. The hardest one was “plan an invasion”, but I’m sure you’re about to tell me that a former naval officer and author of some of the most famous pieces of military science fiction didn’t really mean “plan an invasion” when he said it, or that despite modern history being full of poorly-planned invasions (and there’s one going on right now), actually it’s something you can learn on a three day course.
    - ajkjk 4y ago
      Oh, I totally missed that one. Yeah, sounds like "conn a ship" and "plan an invasion" are actually him just being weirdly militaristic. I guess he thinks everyone should have some career in the military for a while No matter. My complain was that for some reason you were making the other ones sound like they take a long time to learn, which is obviously absurd.
    - dsq 4y ago
      I think his intention was a spaceship/starship. He was a science fiction writer, after all, and most of the Lazarus Long stories take place elsewhere in the Galaxy. A starship can be more or less complicated than a maritime vessel, depending on the onboard computer. Maybe as simple as saying “take me to a nice planet to relax”.
- Slow_Hand 4y ago
  If you want anyone to address the meat of your question simply state what you believe to be the two hardest tasks instead of being vague and making people guess. The conversation would be better for it.