4 ms·

This story is why everyone should have the right to proper legal representation regardless of ability to pay. Cases based on junk science should not have to be

This story is why everyone should have the right to proper legal representation regardless of ability to pay. Cases based on junk science should not have to be reversed on appeal. It would also help build precedent against such methods.

josephcsible 4y ago
> everyone should have the right to proper legal representation regardless of ability to pay Isn't that already the case?
- inetknght 4y ago
  > Isn't that already the case? In spirit, perhaps. In fact, no. If you opt for court-provided representation, your defense attorney will typically have less than an hour to prep for your case -- barely long enough to get "your side of the story" and certainly not long enough to discover nuances relevant to the law. And you might even still have to pay; in Texas, for example, you're not entitled to court-appointed representation if your income is above some unspecified amount.
- partdavid 4y ago
  In the U.S.? In theory; but in practice, there are a lot of problems with the system. A couple of sources, pointing out the failings and holes: https://apnews.com/article/court-decisions-eric-holder-supreme-court-of-the-united-states-united-states-government-96e348cdc34b448e84d4ad346debd417 https://apnews.com/article/court-decisions-eric-holder-supre... highlights the fact that this right extends only to criminal matters, many if not most defendants don't actually receive proper representation, and are subject to political motivations. https://bjs.ojp.gov/data-collection/national-survey-indigent-defense-systems-nsids-2013 https://bjs.ojp.gov/data-collection/national-survey-indigent... highlights some numbers around things like most systems for indigent defense still requiring payment, like application fees or recoupment, and the lack of lawyers in public defenders offices. Remember also that this is only the system if the court decides you "can't pay" and that's not the same thing as "can't pay without selling your house" or "can't pay without cleaning out your $1000 savings account". Judges can decide that since you're living at home your parents can afford to sell their assets to finance your defense, etc. So it's quite porous and there are people who can't afford an effective defense as we would understand but don't meet a judge's interpretation of their state's standard for indigency.
  - gameshot911 4y ago
    [flagged]
- hodgesrm 4y ago
  > Isn't that already the case? In theory yes, according to the US Supreme court in Gideon vs Wainwright. [0] In practice no. Public defender programs are chronically underfunded in the United States. The problem seems to affect states regardless of the party in control. [1] [0] https://www.oyez.org/cases/1962/155 https://www.oyez.org/cases/1962/155 [1] https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2022/06/21/public-defenders-were-scarce-before-covid-its-much-worse-now https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/sta...
- annoyingnoob 4y ago
  My brother is a public defender. He has decades of experience and is board certified in Criminal Defense. He is a good lawyer. He tells me that something like half of his tiny department quit after the pandemic. He has a crazy number of cases to handle, there is no way he can do his full job for any of them.

josephcsible 4y ago

> everyone should have the right to proper legal representation regardless of ability to pay Isn't that already the case?

inetknght 4y ago
> Isn't that already the case? In spirit, perhaps. In fact, no. If you opt for court-provided representation, your defense attorney will typically have less than an hour to prep for your case -- barely long enough to get "your side of the story" and certainly not long enough to discover nuances relevant to the law. And you might even still have to pay; in Texas, for example, you're not entitled to court-appointed representation if your income is above some unspecified amount.
partdavid 4y ago
In the U.S.? In theory; but in practice, there are a lot of problems with the system. A couple of sources, pointing out the failings and holes: https://apnews.com/article/court-decisions-eric-holder-supreme-court-of-the-united-states-united-states-government-96e348cdc34b448e84d4ad346debd417 https://apnews.com/article/court-decisions-eric-holder-supre... highlights the fact that this right extends only to criminal matters, many if not most defendants don't actually receive proper representation, and are subject to political motivations. https://bjs.ojp.gov/data-collection/national-survey-indigent-defense-systems-nsids-2013 https://bjs.ojp.gov/data-collection/national-survey-indigent... highlights some numbers around things like most systems for indigent defense still requiring payment, like application fees or recoupment, and the lack of lawyers in public defenders offices. Remember also that this is only the system if the court decides you "can't pay" and that's not the same thing as "can't pay without selling your house" or "can't pay without cleaning out your $1000 savings account". Judges can decide that since you're living at home your parents can afford to sell their assets to finance your defense, etc. So it's quite porous and there are people who can't afford an effective defense as we would understand but don't meet a judge's interpretation of their state's standard for indigency.
- gameshot911 4y ago
  [flagged]
hodgesrm 4y ago
> Isn't that already the case? In theory yes, according to the US Supreme court in Gideon vs Wainwright. [0] In practice no. Public defender programs are chronically underfunded in the United States. The problem seems to affect states regardless of the party in control. [1] [0] https://www.oyez.org/cases/1962/155 https://www.oyez.org/cases/1962/155 [1] https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2022/06/21/public-defenders-were-scarce-before-covid-its-much-worse-now https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/sta...
annoyingnoob 4y ago
My brother is a public defender. He has decades of experience and is board certified in Criminal Defense. He is a good lawyer. He tells me that something like half of his tiny department quit after the pandemic. He has a crazy number of cases to handle, there is no way he can do his full job for any of them.