4 ms·

Real ID’s sole purpose is to punitively restrict travel for non citizens, particularly undocumented workers. If you value liberty you should oppose it. It’s th

Real ID’s sole purpose is to punitively restrict travel for non citizens, particularly undocumented workers. If you value liberty you should oppose it. It’s the best example of a specific step in the slide to a restrictive police state. In no way does it improve security. I encourage everyone to speak out against it.

thatguy0900 4y ago
I'm not really convinced doing something about illegal immigrants is a step towards a police state. Is this US only rhetoric? Do other countries regularly just allow people to immigrate illegaly and are not interested in doing anything about it? Like I can't imagine just boating to some random coast in Norway and expect to just live a new life there unimpeded by the law.
- uberman 4y ago
  You realize that an illegal immigrant with a valid passport does not need a realid to fly right?
  - ksniwmidjd 4y ago
    [flagged]
  - thatguy0900 4y ago
    How many illegal immigrants have their passports and are willing to risk flying with them? I'm more talking about the mindset of illegally entering a country and then having the expectation that I can do anything there, anyway. Like in my Norway example, I can't imagine just walking to an airport and expecting everything to work out when I just boated into a random part of the country illegally. Is this a US idea that that should be expected to work? I don't have the perspective to know, so I'm asking.
    - nerdbert 4y ago
      Living in the Netherlands, I haven't had to show ID to any government agent when flying to another country in the Schengen area in at least ten years (and I fly quite often). If I don't check in online then I am sometime asked to show it at check-in. And sometimes I have to show it at the gate, but the people there are only eyeballing it to make sure the name matches the boarding pass. Note that I do often have to show ID on the return flight. Each country (and probably airport) has its own procedures.
- prmph 4y ago
  What is wrong with that? By what natural law is moving across cities at will OK, but moving across borders not OK? Legal restriction of movement across borders makes no sense. I mean, wherever you are, you should follow the law. If I'm a criminal, I should be dealt with wherever I find myself. If I don't commit crimes, I should be free to live where I want to live, provided I pay taxes and can pay to stay there.
  - km3r 4y ago
    The same reason I can't just walk into your house and make myself lunch out of your fridge. The people of this country have the same right as the owner of a house to control who can come in and to ask for some requirements as to do so. If you want to loosen the requirements, feel free to get a majority of the owners of the country (we, the people) to agree.
    - prmph 4y ago
      This is a false a equivalence. Immigrants do not not use private resources that belong personally to citizens. They consume public resources, paid for by taxes. So long as they also pay taxes, they are entitled to the use of those resources.
      - km3r 4y ago
        So I can walk into your house as long as I start chipping in for rent and buy some of the groceries myself?
        prmph 4y ago
        Your house belongs to you. The earth, or portions thereof, does not exclusively belong to a group of people just because they happened to live there currently. In any case, in many of these countries ( including the US) where people are rabidly advocating for curbs on movement, the majority of the population brutally displaced people who had lived there for thousands of years. By your own logic they have been breaking the law for a long time.
UncleEntity 4y ago
> Real ID’s sole purpose is to punitively restrict travel for non citizens, particularly undocumented workers. You mean like the inland border patrol checkpoints that are literally designed to restrict travel for non-citizens? That goat’s already out to pasture…
rolenthedeep 4y ago
Huh, I had just assumed it was a voter suppression measure
- esyir 4y ago
  Or a form of identification, like most other countries have.
  - rolenthedeep 4y ago
    Sure, right up until it's implemented and immediately becomes the only form of acceptable ID for voter registration. Or, they require the new ID, AND your old state ID AND your birth certificate AND solid proof of address. Then it becomes voter suppression, and it happens entirely too frequently here. Does the US need a national ID system? Yes, definitely. But it needs to be implemented carefully to not fuck over the citizens, and our government doesn't understand how to not be a festering sack of dicks so it's not likely to happen soon.
- adamrezich 4y ago
  what is wrong with "suppressing" votes of non-citizens?
  - cnelsenmilt 4y ago
    That's not what the comment you're replying to said.
  - nerdbert 4y ago
    It's about suppressing votes of marginalized citizens who have limited access to government bureaucratic procedures due to time, location, language, or other constraints, many of which have been constructed deliberately or with knowing negligence.
    - chrisco255 4y ago
      This is a neat narrative, but there are tens of thousands of DMV locations all over the country. Appointments can be booked ahead of time to minimize time impact. It only needs to be done once every few years. Documentation is available in English and Spanish. That being said, to participate in civics in the U.S. you need to know some English. It's part of the citizenship test, and the laws are written in English.
rasz 4y ago
[flagged]
thrwawy74 4y ago
More information here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_identification_laws_in_the_United_States#Politicization_of_voter_ID_issues https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_identification_laws_in_t...

thatguy0900 4y ago

I'm not really convinced doing something about illegal immigrants is a step towards a police state. Is this US only rhetoric? Do other countries regularly just allow people to immigrate illegaly and are not interested in doing anything about it? Like I can't imagine just boating to some random coast in Norway and expect to just live a new life there unimpeded by the law.

uberman 4y ago
You realize that an illegal immigrant with a valid passport does not need a realid to fly right?
- ksniwmidjd 4y ago
  [flagged]
- thatguy0900 4y ago
  How many illegal immigrants have their passports and are willing to risk flying with them? I'm more talking about the mindset of illegally entering a country and then having the expectation that I can do anything there, anyway. Like in my Norway example, I can't imagine just walking to an airport and expecting everything to work out when I just boated into a random part of the country illegally. Is this a US idea that that should be expected to work? I don't have the perspective to know, so I'm asking.
  - nerdbert 4y ago
    Living in the Netherlands, I haven't had to show ID to any government agent when flying to another country in the Schengen area in at least ten years (and I fly quite often). If I don't check in online then I am sometime asked to show it at check-in. And sometimes I have to show it at the gate, but the people there are only eyeballing it to make sure the name matches the boarding pass. Note that I do often have to show ID on the return flight. Each country (and probably airport) has its own procedures.
prmph 4y ago
What is wrong with that? By what natural law is moving across cities at will OK, but moving across borders not OK? Legal restriction of movement across borders makes no sense. I mean, wherever you are, you should follow the law. If I'm a criminal, I should be dealt with wherever I find myself. If I don't commit crimes, I should be free to live where I want to live, provided I pay taxes and can pay to stay there.
- km3r 4y ago
  The same reason I can't just walk into your house and make myself lunch out of your fridge. The people of this country have the same right as the owner of a house to control who can come in and to ask for some requirements as to do so. If you want to loosen the requirements, feel free to get a majority of the owners of the country (we, the people) to agree.
  - prmph 4y ago
    This is a false a equivalence. Immigrants do not not use private resources that belong personally to citizens. They consume public resources, paid for by taxes. So long as they also pay taxes, they are entitled to the use of those resources.
    - km3r 4y ago
      So I can walk into your house as long as I start chipping in for rent and buy some of the groceries myself?
      - prmph 4y ago
        Your house belongs to you. The earth, or portions thereof, does not exclusively belong to a group of people just because they happened to live there currently. In any case, in many of these countries ( including the US) where people are rabidly advocating for curbs on movement, the majority of the population brutally displaced people who had lived there for thousands of years. By your own logic they have been breaking the law for a long time.

UncleEntity 4y ago

> Real ID’s sole purpose is to punitively restrict travel for non citizens, particularly undocumented workers. You mean like the inland border patrol checkpoints that are literally designed to restrict travel for non-citizens? That goat’s already out to pasture…

rolenthedeep 4y ago

Huh, I had just assumed it was a voter suppression measure

esyir 4y ago
Or a form of identification, like most other countries have.
- rolenthedeep 4y ago
  Sure, right up until it's implemented and immediately becomes the only form of acceptable ID for voter registration. Or, they require the new ID, AND your old state ID AND your birth certificate AND solid proof of address. Then it becomes voter suppression, and it happens entirely too frequently here. Does the US need a national ID system? Yes, definitely. But it needs to be implemented carefully to not fuck over the citizens, and our government doesn't understand how to not be a festering sack of dicks so it's not likely to happen soon.
adamrezich 4y ago
what is wrong with "suppressing" votes of non-citizens?
- cnelsenmilt 4y ago
  That's not what the comment you're replying to said.
- nerdbert 4y ago
  It's about suppressing votes of marginalized citizens who have limited access to government bureaucratic procedures due to time, location, language, or other constraints, many of which have been constructed deliberately or with knowing negligence.
  - chrisco255 4y ago
    This is a neat narrative, but there are tens of thousands of DMV locations all over the country. Appointments can be booked ahead of time to minimize time impact. It only needs to be done once every few years. Documentation is available in English and Spanish. That being said, to participate in civics in the U.S. you need to know some English. It's part of the citizenship test, and the laws are written in English.

rasz 4y ago

[flagged]

thrwawy74 4y ago

More information here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_identification_laws_in_the_United_States#Politicization_of_voter_ID_issues https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_identification_laws_in_t...