4 ms·

I hope we (Norway) will stop opening new oil fields. Previous contract (Wisting) just got stopped, hope we keep that up.

derriz 4y ago
I also hope so. It’s not like the country can’t afford it. It’s hard not to view Norway and other big fossil fuel exporters as being analogous to cigarette companies. Everyone knows what you’re selling is poison but you get a pass because we’ve come accustomed to it. In an ideal world, carbon fuels would be taxed at source - ie those countries who do the extraction and profit from it would be liable for the associated externalities. Currently efforts target consumers rather than producers.
- matsemann 4y ago
  Yeah, we like to believe we and our oil is so "clean". It's just that we export it for others to burn, and import products produced with pollution attributed to other's soil..
- SyzygistSix 4y ago
  Demand and genuine need is the issue, not production. Better that production is in Western democracies with high environmental standards than elsewhere. The issue is using those fossil fuels to reduce how much we will need them in the future and using them to transition to green energy. Cigarettes are a bad analogy. A necessary life-saving drug we all depend upon with bad side effects is more apt. Ramping up production of a better life-saving drug is the solution, not stopping production of the old one.
mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
Unfortunately it seems unlikely with the labour party being strongly dependent on support from unions that are disappointingly obsessed with keeping(and growing) oil industry jobs at any cost. And the conservatives want to do their hydrogen greenwashing nonsense of course. Then the 2 biggest parties after those are populist climate deniers(FRP) and populist luddites(SP).
slothtrop 4y ago
Even if it does, others will increase supply to meet the rising global demand. That is a certainty, between emerging economies and westerners padding their numbers with immigration. Techno-optimists have unrealistic near-term expectations about abating emissions, and the greens are anywhere between conspiracy nuts and ancoms romanticizing primitivism.
- derriz 4y ago
  “That’s a certainty” - based on what evidence? Most indicators show that we have reached (or will reach within a year or two) peak global fossil fuel consumption. Even the EIA (who have been notoriously conservative in recognizing the transformative effects of renewables in energy markets) are conceding as much. https://www.iea.org/news/the-world-s-coal-consumption-is-set-to-reach-a-new-high-in-2022-as-the-energy-crisis-shakes-markets https://www.iea.org/news/the-world-s-coal-consumption-is-set...
  - slothtrop 4y ago
    There is one throwaway line on there with no explanation. As it stands, 75% of fossil fuel use is not for electricity and is not yet abated with new technologies. Demand is always rising (emerging economies plus immigration) so I see no reason to believe we are anywhere near "peak" use. I think the trajectory of emissions tells the better story.
    - derriz 4y ago
      I don’t see how the trajectory of emissions can differ from the trajectory of fossil fuel consumption. Yes electricity generation accounts for roughly a quarter of emissions - very roughly the other quarters are due to transport, domestic heating/cooking and industrial. Hence the decarbonization of electricity generation is being pursued along with the electrification of the latter sources of emissions. Given the trends, I’m quite confident we’ll be successful lowering emissions. I’m less confident that it won’t be too late to avoid catastrophic climate change.
      - 4y ago

derriz 4y ago

I also hope so. It’s not like the country can’t afford it. It’s hard not to view Norway and other big fossil fuel exporters as being analogous to cigarette companies. Everyone knows what you’re selling is poison but you get a pass because we’ve come accustomed to it. In an ideal world, carbon fuels would be taxed at source - ie those countries who do the extraction and profit from it would be liable for the associated externalities. Currently efforts target consumers rather than producers.

matsemann 4y ago
Yeah, we like to believe we and our oil is so "clean". It's just that we export it for others to burn, and import products produced with pollution attributed to other's soil..
SyzygistSix 4y ago
Demand and genuine need is the issue, not production. Better that production is in Western democracies with high environmental standards than elsewhere. The issue is using those fossil fuels to reduce how much we will need them in the future and using them to transition to green energy. Cigarettes are a bad analogy. A necessary life-saving drug we all depend upon with bad side effects is more apt. Ramping up production of a better life-saving drug is the solution, not stopping production of the old one.

mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago

Unfortunately it seems unlikely with the labour party being strongly dependent on support from unions that are disappointingly obsessed with keeping(and growing) oil industry jobs at any cost. And the conservatives want to do their hydrogen greenwashing nonsense of course. Then the 2 biggest parties after those are populist climate deniers(FRP) and populist luddites(SP).

slothtrop 4y ago

Even if it does, others will increase supply to meet the rising global demand. That is a certainty, between emerging economies and westerners padding their numbers with immigration. Techno-optimists have unrealistic near-term expectations about abating emissions, and the greens are anywhere between conspiracy nuts and ancoms romanticizing primitivism.

derriz 4y ago
“That’s a certainty” - based on what evidence? Most indicators show that we have reached (or will reach within a year or two) peak global fossil fuel consumption. Even the EIA (who have been notoriously conservative in recognizing the transformative effects of renewables in energy markets) are conceding as much. https://www.iea.org/news/the-world-s-coal-consumption-is-set-to-reach-a-new-high-in-2022-as-the-energy-crisis-shakes-markets https://www.iea.org/news/the-world-s-coal-consumption-is-set...
- slothtrop 4y ago
  There is one throwaway line on there with no explanation. As it stands, 75% of fossil fuel use is not for electricity and is not yet abated with new technologies. Demand is always rising (emerging economies plus immigration) so I see no reason to believe we are anywhere near "peak" use. I think the trajectory of emissions tells the better story.
  - derriz 4y ago
    I don’t see how the trajectory of emissions can differ from the trajectory of fossil fuel consumption. Yes electricity generation accounts for roughly a quarter of emissions - very roughly the other quarters are due to transport, domestic heating/cooking and industrial. Hence the decarbonization of electricity generation is being pursued along with the electrification of the latter sources of emissions. Given the trends, I’m quite confident we’ll be successful lowering emissions. I’m less confident that it won’t be too late to avoid catastrophic climate change.
    - 4y ago