4 ms·

Last summer we hiked the Bruce Trail in Ontario, Canada, and discovered for myself that the local laws are NOT so free and permitting. You can't just set up cam

by _xnmw 4y ago

Last summer we hiked the Bruce Trail in Ontario, Canada, and discovered for myself that the local laws are NOT so free and permitting. You can't just set up camp anywhere you want, only on predefined campsites and trails. Without that freedom camping is -much- less fun.

Lio 4y ago
In England we have this weird legal gray area around wild camping. It’s not strictly speaking legally protected but it’s not illegal either. Trespass in England is definitely not yet a crime[1]. Apart from a few specific areas like Dartmoor where wild camping is specifically legal it amounts to, you can camp where you like but you can’t damage anything doing so and if you get asked to leave you have to. If you don’t leave when asked to by the land owner only then it becomes a criminal matter. The whole process becomes even murkier because it’s often hard to know who actually owns the land. A random member of the public can’t ask you to leave. It turns out that land owners don’t often want to admit they own the land. The whole thing is a bloody mess but can be summed up as, it’s easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission so leave no trace. 1. I say not yet because several wealthy Tory party donors have campaigned for years to change the law. https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/trespass-and-nuisance-land https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/trespass-and-nuisance-...
- lebski88 4y ago
  I would love the right to wild camp in England. That said I do wonder how well it would stand up to our much higher population density. The current system does kind of work despite its lack of rules or clarity. I think our trespass rules are a good compromise.
  - DonaldFisk 4y ago
    I've heard this argument before but there are plenty of remote, sparsely populated places in England (e.g. Dartmoor, the Peak District). Yes, wild camping in more densely populated areas might be a problem, and England has more of those due to its higher population density, but similar places would in practice be off-limits in Scotland too.
motohagiography 4y ago
These rules are the artifact of a different era and economics. I've lived at two Bruce Trail trailheads, and thankfully, most people are responsible. The problem where I am now is that these laws and rights of way were made when the population was much smaller. We get loiterers, "kids" but really people in their 20s from nearby suburbs with subwoofers in their cars parked at the trailhead and yelling. Rock faces on the trail are covered in spray paint, and not the grafitti art people are so sentimental about. I could really see a revolt against these old rights as societies change. They were made for a different time culture where there was a recognition that what made them beautiful and desirable was our respective absence and invisibility. "Leave no trace" is a pretty refined value and it's not universal.
ghaff 4y ago
On public lands, it varies a lot in the US depending on popularity. In popular wilderness areas and national parks, it's pretty common to need a backcountry permit to camp at a specific location--and in some cases these are very hard to come by. In other cases, especially BLM land but often national forests as well, you can camp more or less where you want to.

by _xnmw 4y ago

Lio 4y ago

In England we have this weird legal gray area around wild camping. It’s not strictly speaking legally protected but it’s not illegal either. Trespass in England is definitely not yet a crime[1]. Apart from a few specific areas like Dartmoor where wild camping is specifically legal it amounts to, you can camp where you like but you can’t damage anything doing so and if you get asked to leave you have to. If you don’t leave when asked to by the land owner only then it becomes a criminal matter. The whole process becomes even murkier because it’s often hard to know who actually owns the land. A random member of the public can’t ask you to leave. It turns out that land owners don’t often want to admit they own the land. The whole thing is a bloody mess but can be summed up as, it’s easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission so leave no trace. 1. I say not yet because several wealthy Tory party donors have campaigned for years to change the law. https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/trespass-and-nuisance-land https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/trespass-and-nuisance-...

lebski88 4y ago
I would love the right to wild camp in England. That said I do wonder how well it would stand up to our much higher population density. The current system does kind of work despite its lack of rules or clarity. I think our trespass rules are a good compromise.
- DonaldFisk 4y ago
  I've heard this argument before but there are plenty of remote, sparsely populated places in England (e.g. Dartmoor, the Peak District). Yes, wild camping in more densely populated areas might be a problem, and England has more of those due to its higher population density, but similar places would in practice be off-limits in Scotland too.

motohagiography 4y ago

These rules are the artifact of a different era and economics. I've lived at two Bruce Trail trailheads, and thankfully, most people are responsible. The problem where I am now is that these laws and rights of way were made when the population was much smaller. We get loiterers, "kids" but really people in their 20s from nearby suburbs with subwoofers in their cars parked at the trailhead and yelling. Rock faces on the trail are covered in spray paint, and not the grafitti art people are so sentimental about. I could really see a revolt against these old rights as societies change. They were made for a different time culture where there was a recognition that what made them beautiful and desirable was our respective absence and invisibility. "Leave no trace" is a pretty refined value and it's not universal.

ghaff 4y ago

On public lands, it varies a lot in the US depending on popularity. In popular wilderness areas and national parks, it's pretty common to need a backcountry permit to camp at a specific location--and in some cases these are very hard to come by. In other cases, especially BLM land but often national forests as well, you can camp more or less where you want to.