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Be advised that food in the US labeled “nitrate free*” or “uncured” still contains just as much nitrates as the unlabeled stuff. Nitrates are required of US man

Be advised that food in the US labeled “nitrate free*” or “uncured” still contains just as much nitrates as the unlabeled stuff. Nitrates are required of US manufacturers BY THE FDA for food safety and just because that’s what those foods are by their nature. The difference is that “uncured” uses fermented celery powder as a natural, indirect source of nitrates to cure the meat. This labeling issue is not necessarily true outside the US. For example, the great hams of Europe like Prosciutto and Jamon Iberico are made with only salt, pork, and time https://cairncrestfarm.com/blog/the-end-of-the-great-nitrate-hoax/ https://cairncrestfarm.com/blog/the-end-of-the-great-nitrate...

tootie 4y ago
The article is about nitrites not nitrates.
- hammock 4y ago
  Distinction without a difference. Nitrates breakdown to nitrites with the help of bacteria native in meat itself
  - TylerE 4y ago
    Similar chemicals can have vastly different biological characteristics, like if one can bind to a certain nueroteceptor (or pass the blood-brain barrier in the first place) or not. Chloride is a basic chemical used by the body. Take away an ion and make it chlorine, and it is fatal in very small quantities.
- xutopia 4y ago
  AFAIK one gets converted into the other by bacteria and both could react to the strongly acidic environment in the stomach and form nitrosamines which is how we think ingesting them increases chances of cancer.
- saxonww 4y ago
  You need to be concerned with both [0]. In short, nitrites and nitrous oxide do the preservative work. Nitrates convert into nitrites and later nitrous oxide over time. But nitrites can also convert into nitrosamine, which is the danger chemical. [0]: https://www.americastestkitchen.com/cooksillustrated/articles/1701-nitrate-versus-nitrite-what-s-the-difference https://www.americastestkitchen.com/cooksillustrated/article...
dunham 4y ago
Do you have any further information on whether the USDA still intends to do something about this?
xerox13ster 4y ago
My conception of the commonality of the knowledge of the difference between -ate and -ite in chemistry must be warped by taking high level classes at a young age, because this article directly states that it is talking about Nitrite and not nitrates. Nitrates are not nitrites. Nitrates have additional bonds with Oxygen and are therefore more stable than Nitrites. This article is explicitly about nitrites being a clear risk of cancer and only contains a single reference to the world nitrates. The article you listed equates the two substances, but that's not the way the chemistry works here. As the prime example of how different -ites and -ates are: Carbonate is CO3(2-) which is a constituent part of calcium carbonate or Sodium bicarbonate and carbonite is a cloud backup service because chemically, one less bonded oxygen is CO2, carbon dioxide, and that's how it works with carbon because of bonds valence bonds form between electrons, you'll have to forgive me if I'm fuzzy on the finer details, it's been a decade.
- Reason077 4y ago
  Sodium nitrate breaks down into sodium nitrite in cured meat products, so it's the same thing by the time it reaches your bowel.
  - xerox13ster 4y ago
    Well that is horrifying, I am glad I have always made my bresaola nitrate free then.
- djur 4y ago
  The fuzziness here is because nitrates and nitrites are both used for meat curing, and the way the nitrate works is by being turned into the nitrite by bacterial action during the cure. Any nitrate that remains in the end product may then be turned into nitrite by gut bacteria. So from a food safety perspective they are really interchangeable. Current regulations in the US allow products made with organic nitrates to be labelled as "uncured" even though the end product would contain nitrites.
  - jiveturkey 4y ago
Reason077 4y ago
> "in the US labeled “nitrate free” or “uncured” still contains just as much nitrates as the unlabeled stuff" But not in the EU, where products labelled nitrate-free are NOT permitted to contain nitrate analogs such as celery extract. There are some true nitrate-free bacon products sold in the UK, such as Finnebrogue. They list the only ingredients as "Pork (87%), Water, Salt, Natural Flavouring, Antioxidant: Ascorbic Acid". Not as pink as nitrate-cured bacon once cooked, but tastes pretty great!
- brnt 4y ago
  Most food sold in the US would not be legal to sell in the EU. Major sticking point in every free trade negotiation.
ac29 4y ago
> Nitrates are required of US manufacturers BY THE FDA for food safety Are you sure? I looked through the "uncured" bacons at a local grocery store online and while most of them have nitrates from celery powder, one of them is just "pork, sea salt, cane sugar".
- hammock 4y ago
  Per the US Constitution, FDA regulates interstate commerce so if the meat never crosses a state line it is possible

tootie 4y ago

The article is about nitrites not nitrates.

hammock 4y ago
Distinction without a difference. Nitrates breakdown to nitrites with the help of bacteria native in meat itself
- TylerE 4y ago
  Similar chemicals can have vastly different biological characteristics, like if one can bind to a certain nueroteceptor (or pass the blood-brain barrier in the first place) or not. Chloride is a basic chemical used by the body. Take away an ion and make it chlorine, and it is fatal in very small quantities.
xutopia 4y ago
AFAIK one gets converted into the other by bacteria and both could react to the strongly acidic environment in the stomach and form nitrosamines which is how we think ingesting them increases chances of cancer.
saxonww 4y ago
You need to be concerned with both [0]. In short, nitrites and nitrous oxide do the preservative work. Nitrates convert into nitrites and later nitrous oxide over time. But nitrites can also convert into nitrosamine, which is the danger chemical. [0]: https://www.americastestkitchen.com/cooksillustrated/articles/1701-nitrate-versus-nitrite-what-s-the-difference https://www.americastestkitchen.com/cooksillustrated/article...

dunham 4y ago

Do you have any further information on whether the USDA still intends to do something about this?

xerox13ster 4y ago

My conception of the commonality of the knowledge of the difference between -ate and -ite in chemistry must be warped by taking high level classes at a young age, because this article directly states that it is talking about Nitrite and not nitrates. Nitrates are not nitrites. Nitrates have additional bonds with Oxygen and are therefore more stable than Nitrites. This article is explicitly about nitrites being a clear risk of cancer and only contains a single reference to the world nitrates. The article you listed equates the two substances, but that's not the way the chemistry works here. As the prime example of how different -ites and -ates are: Carbonate is CO3(2-) which is a constituent part of calcium carbonate or Sodium bicarbonate and carbonite is a cloud backup service because chemically, one less bonded oxygen is CO2, carbon dioxide, and that's how it works with carbon because of bonds valence bonds form between electrons, you'll have to forgive me if I'm fuzzy on the finer details, it's been a decade.

Reason077 4y ago
Sodium nitrate breaks down into sodium nitrite in cured meat products, so it's the same thing by the time it reaches your bowel.
- xerox13ster 4y ago
  Well that is horrifying, I am glad I have always made my bresaola nitrate free then.
djur 4y ago
The fuzziness here is because nitrates and nitrites are both used for meat curing, and the way the nitrate works is by being turned into the nitrite by bacterial action during the cure. Any nitrate that remains in the end product may then be turned into nitrite by gut bacteria. So from a food safety perspective they are really interchangeable. Current regulations in the US allow products made with organic nitrates to be labelled as "uncured" even though the end product would contain nitrites.
- jiveturkey 4y ago

Reason077 4y ago

> "in the US labeled “nitrate free” or “uncured” still contains just as much nitrates as the unlabeled stuff" But not in the EU, where products labelled nitrate-free are NOT permitted to contain nitrate analogs such as celery extract. There are some true nitrate-free bacon products sold in the UK, such as Finnebrogue. They list the only ingredients as "Pork (87%), Water, Salt, Natural Flavouring, Antioxidant: Ascorbic Acid". Not as pink as nitrate-cured bacon once cooked, but tastes pretty great!

brnt 4y ago
Most food sold in the US would not be legal to sell in the EU. Major sticking point in every free trade negotiation.

ac29 4y ago

> Nitrates are required of US manufacturers BY THE FDA for food safety Are you sure? I looked through the "uncured" bacons at a local grocery store online and while most of them have nitrates from celery powder, one of them is just "pork, sea salt, cane sugar".

hammock 4y ago
Per the US Constitution, FDA regulates interstate commerce so if the meat never crosses a state line it is possible