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I wonder if self-driving doesn't actually require reasoning, though. Most of us are able to drive instinctively, without fully engaging all of our attention; we

I wonder if self-driving doesn't actually require reasoning, though. Most of us are able to drive instinctively, without fully engaging all of our attention; we certainly aren't solving problems with deep analytical thinking. Perhaps it's a problem that's well-suited to the approach an AI like ChatGPT takes?

gamegoblin 4y ago
I agree. I go weeks at a time without having to do any critical thinking whatsoever. There probably are some situations that do actually require a looping reasoning process that a simple feed-forward neural network can't do, but they are fairly rare. The most common ones probably actually involve complex parking lot navigation tasks, where you have to negotiate the space with other drivers, understand their intentions, yield space, take space, etc.
- archagon 4y ago
  You may end up using reasoning more often than you think. I run into situations that require my full attention and are very likely un-AI-able once a week or so. (And I live in California.)
sho_hn 4y ago
> Most of us are able to drive instinctively, without fully engaging all of our attention; we certainly aren't solving problems with deep analytical thinking Depends. Many of the type of situations where FSD runs into trouble or disengages are also the ones where a human would slow down/pause and ponder a moment what to do next. In the FSD case, it then often eventually gives up and disengages, because it can't confidently predict what action to take. Humans show better performance in those cases. If you ask me what separates a human from ChatGPT right now, it's that ability to use reasoning to fill in for bad training data. If, as some people have posited, the training data for ChatGPT-like systems is possibly already exhausted, we need some new ideas. But humans are good at that. :-) Aside from that, note also that your learned instinctive predictions take into account many more parameters than the models a Tesla currently runs anyway. For example you have an understanding of social dynamics (so what those other human drivers think and what might be acting on them, etc.) that is far in excess of what the Tesla models can learn implicitly from videos that observe them driving. With some of these things we have no idea yet how to feed them into the models.

gamegoblin 4y ago

I agree. I go weeks at a time without having to do any critical thinking whatsoever. There probably are some situations that do actually require a looping reasoning process that a simple feed-forward neural network can't do, but they are fairly rare. The most common ones probably actually involve complex parking lot navigation tasks, where you have to negotiate the space with other drivers, understand their intentions, yield space, take space, etc.

archagon 4y ago
You may end up using reasoning more often than you think. I run into situations that require my full attention and are very likely un-AI-able once a week or so. (And I live in California.)

sho_hn 4y ago

> Most of us are able to drive instinctively, without fully engaging all of our attention; we certainly aren't solving problems with deep analytical thinking Depends. Many of the type of situations where FSD runs into trouble or disengages are also the ones where a human would slow down/pause and ponder a moment what to do next. In the FSD case, it then often eventually gives up and disengages, because it can't confidently predict what action to take. Humans show better performance in those cases. If you ask me what separates a human from ChatGPT right now, it's that ability to use reasoning to fill in for bad training data. If, as some people have posited, the training data for ChatGPT-like systems is possibly already exhausted, we need some new ideas. But humans are good at that. :-) Aside from that, note also that your learned instinctive predictions take into account many more parameters than the models a Tesla currently runs anyway. For example you have an understanding of social dynamics (so what those other human drivers think and what might be acting on them, etc.) that is far in excess of what the Tesla models can learn implicitly from videos that observe them driving. With some of these things we have no idea yet how to feed them into the models.