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The best thing about USB-C is the connector. Everything else is a mess. I have a powered speaker with a USB-C port for “charging” that does not work with a USB-

The best thing about USB-C is the connector. Everything else is a mess. I have a powered speaker with a USB-C port for “charging” that does not work with a USB-C to USB-C cable. Only USB-A to USB-C cables will charge the speaker.

gumby 4y ago
The way USB C is designed you have to go out of your way to make that happen. I believe you (!) but I'm not sure how I could build a device to behave that way. Could it be due to a weirdly noncompliant power adaptor?
- wiredfool 4y ago
  I’ve got a pair of cheap Bluetooth headphones that do that too — they only work with a usb a to c cable, not with a proper usb c power supply and cable.
- fragmede 4y ago
  That device, the speaker in this case, is missing the pull-down (Rd) resistors on CC1 and CC2 to say that it's happy to get 5v@500ma when connected using a USB-C to USB-C cable. Those resistors aren't needed/used for signaling when using a USB-C to USB-A cable, which is why that works. https://community.silabs.com/s/article/what-s-the-role-of-cc-pin-in-type-c-solution?language=en_US https://community.silabs.com/s/article/what-s-the-role-of-cc...
  - RobotToaster 4y ago
    So they saved a fraction of a cent per unit on two resistors?
    - fragmede 4y ago
      To GP's point, that's the problem with Postel's Law. It's possible that was intentionally skipped to save fractional cents, but I think it's also possible they made the device and just never tested with a usb-c to usb-c cable. "It works on my machine (which is too old to have usb-c ports because we don't buy macbooks for hardware designers)!"
- TulliusCicero 4y ago
  I have a retro games portable that behaves the same way.
- numpad0 4y ago
  No, it’s the peripheral device. There were initial confusions among bootleg/hacky manufacturers such as: - whether CC pins are to be handled by the cable or by the device, - whether added pins are for insertion detection or for protocol use by the host, - which pins are to be pulled down or left NC for charging, - whether USB-C is meant to be a “mobile” connector, or a replacement for the USB-A connector, or how soon the replacement is to occur. As the result, there were some devices that has a USB-C input but only works with an A to C cable.
yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
Always, or did it just break the ability to flip it upside-down?
- zlsa 4y ago
  If the 5.1k pull-down resistors are missing on the device side, it will not charge from a USB-C wall brick, laptop, etc. in either orientation, but it will work fine when charging from a USB-A outlet with a USB-A to USB-C cable. This is because USB-C outlets are not permitted to provide any power until they detect the presence of a "legacy" device that just wants 5v (as signaled by the pull-down resistors on the device).
Foobar8568 4y ago
Ducky keyboards are the same...
wlesieutre 4y ago
I have a USB recharged LED lantern with the same problem
zlsa 4y ago
This is a super common f*ckup in a truly ridiculous number of devices. It's so common that somebody published a PCB design to retrofit noncompliant devices to make them work: https://github.com/ide/usb-c-to-c-power-mod https://github.com/ide/usb-c-to-c-power-mod
- Narushia 4y ago
  Huh, TIL. My phone, gamepad, and headphones charge just fine with a C-to-C cable. I guess I’m glad to have somehow managed to avoid devices with that fuckup…
  - saiya-jin 4y ago
    Offical cables to good devices, or reputable expensive brand vs ulta cheap nonames with logos one simply can't trust. Never had issue with c-c cables neither, but I use tiny anker 65w charger and official samsung phone c-c cable (so getting ultra fast phone charging or whatever is the proper name), but its true that if I had to supply 3-4 locations with all necessary and convenient set of chargers and cables that would cost quite a bit. It really is one of those 'you get what you pay for', unfortunately very few people know this and I learned most of this here on HN too
clumsysmurf 4y ago
I hate USB-C connectors. All my phones have had the same issue: USB-C connector busts and you can't insert the cable any more. I use high quality Anker cables, and I keep having to buy new Google Pixels over this. Replacing the USB-C port is around $160.
- delecti 4y ago
  I'll second the "relevant username" sentiment, but without the winky face. I've had phones break in a variety of ways, but the USB-C ports have always kept working.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  Username checks out ;) But seriously, yes, they are ridiculously fragile and usually only SMD soldered on, no hole through part to give it some mechanical strength. Very frustrating, I am super careful inserting USB-C connectors and have broken a couple already, fortunately not on anything expensive.
  - clumsysmurf 4y ago
    Do you recommend any kind of port-saver magnetic cable ... something like https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Charging-Charger-Transfer-2018-2021/dp/B0B93VW72C https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Charging-Charger-Transfer-20... but with high speed data?
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      I haven't used anything like that, for me the problem isn't tripping over cables but basically the force required to attach the cable in the first place. I guess a magnetic pigtail would reduce the number of times I need to insert the cable but a regular USB-C extension cable would do just as well for that purpose (and that's what I use right now). That's still not perfect because the 2 cm of plug sticking out of the side of the device is long enough to put substantial leverage on the soldered part inside the device but that seems to be a given. I do try to find the shortest possible plug to minimize that force, but can't find them much shorter than that.
gambiting 4y ago
I was going to say the same thing. I don't understand how that's possible - it's incredibly frustrating.
elzbardico 4y ago
Really, compared to lightning USB-C connector is pure trash. But compared to USB-A I concede it is an improvement.
- genewitch 4y ago
  i always worry about the lightning connector shorting out when it's not plugged in to something.
  - zrail 4y ago
    When they were babies both of my kids happily chewed on lightning cables that were plugged into a charger. They're both still here but all of those cables stopped working shortly thereafter.
  - aix1 4y ago
    "When a Lightning cable is just lying somewhere connected to a charger/computer, but not connected to a device, HiFive limits current on the PWR to a really small value (around 10-15 mA according to my measurements). To enable full current, 0x74 request must be issued by Tristar and processed by HiFive." https://nyansatan.github.io/lightning/ https://nyansatan.github.io/lightning/
  - rubatuga 4y ago
    Woke up with a lightning connector burning into my back, was very uncomfortable
cesarb 4y ago
The way USB-C works with adapters to legacy USB (USB-A and USB-B) is brilliant. Unlike in USB-C, in legacy USB the power roles are fixed: the USB-A socket and USB-B plug provide power (source), the USB-A plug and USB-B socket receive power (sink). A USB-C to legacy adapter always has a USB-C plug (never a USB-C socket), and one of these four legacy alternatives. If the legacy end of the cable is one which receives power (USB-A plug or USB-B socket), the USB-C end has a pull-up resistor to that power on the configuration pins, indicating to the USB-C device that this cable provides power; if the legacy end of the cable is one which provides power (USB-A socket or USB-B plug), the USB-C end has a pull-down resistor to ground on the configuration pins, indicating to the USB-C device that this cable requests power. The USB-C device only connects its power output to the socket when it sees that pull-down resistor, so the power supplies will not be shorted together if the cable always provides power to it. And the only thing necessary for an adapter, or for an USB-C device which only receives power, is a pair of resistors. And this explains your scenario: in the USB-A plug to USB-C plug case, the cable always provides power on the USB-C plug; in the USB-C to USB-C plug case, the device on the other end will only provide power when it sees the pull-down to ground, which should be provided by the device, and in your case is probably missing.

gumby 4y ago

The way USB C is designed you have to go out of your way to make that happen. I believe you (!) but I'm not sure how I could build a device to behave that way. Could it be due to a weirdly noncompliant power adaptor?

wiredfool 4y ago
I’ve got a pair of cheap Bluetooth headphones that do that too — they only work with a usb a to c cable, not with a proper usb c power supply and cable.
fragmede 4y ago
That device, the speaker in this case, is missing the pull-down (Rd) resistors on CC1 and CC2 to say that it's happy to get 5v@500ma when connected using a USB-C to USB-C cable. Those resistors aren't needed/used for signaling when using a USB-C to USB-A cable, which is why that works. https://community.silabs.com/s/article/what-s-the-role-of-cc-pin-in-type-c-solution?language=en_US https://community.silabs.com/s/article/what-s-the-role-of-cc...
- RobotToaster 4y ago
  So they saved a fraction of a cent per unit on two resistors?
  - fragmede 4y ago
    To GP's point, that's the problem with Postel's Law. It's possible that was intentionally skipped to save fractional cents, but I think it's also possible they made the device and just never tested with a usb-c to usb-c cable. "It works on my machine (which is too old to have usb-c ports because we don't buy macbooks for hardware designers)!"
TulliusCicero 4y ago
I have a retro games portable that behaves the same way.
numpad0 4y ago
No, it’s the peripheral device. There were initial confusions among bootleg/hacky manufacturers such as: - whether CC pins are to be handled by the cable or by the device, - whether added pins are for insertion detection or for protocol use by the host, - which pins are to be pulled down or left NC for charging, - whether USB-C is meant to be a “mobile” connector, or a replacement for the USB-A connector, or how soon the replacement is to occur. As the result, there were some devices that has a USB-C input but only works with an A to C cable.

yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago

Always, or did it just break the ability to flip it upside-down?

zlsa 4y ago
If the 5.1k pull-down resistors are missing on the device side, it will not charge from a USB-C wall brick, laptop, etc. in either orientation, but it will work fine when charging from a USB-A outlet with a USB-A to USB-C cable. This is because USB-C outlets are not permitted to provide any power until they detect the presence of a "legacy" device that just wants 5v (as signaled by the pull-down resistors on the device).

Foobar8568 4y ago

Ducky keyboards are the same...

wlesieutre 4y ago

I have a USB recharged LED lantern with the same problem

zlsa 4y ago

This is a super common f*ckup in a truly ridiculous number of devices. It's so common that somebody published a PCB design to retrofit noncompliant devices to make them work: https://github.com/ide/usb-c-to-c-power-mod https://github.com/ide/usb-c-to-c-power-mod

Narushia 4y ago
Huh, TIL. My phone, gamepad, and headphones charge just fine with a C-to-C cable. I guess I’m glad to have somehow managed to avoid devices with that fuckup…
- saiya-jin 4y ago
  Offical cables to good devices, or reputable expensive brand vs ulta cheap nonames with logos one simply can't trust. Never had issue with c-c cables neither, but I use tiny anker 65w charger and official samsung phone c-c cable (so getting ultra fast phone charging or whatever is the proper name), but its true that if I had to supply 3-4 locations with all necessary and convenient set of chargers and cables that would cost quite a bit. It really is one of those 'you get what you pay for', unfortunately very few people know this and I learned most of this here on HN too

clumsysmurf 4y ago

I hate USB-C connectors. All my phones have had the same issue: USB-C connector busts and you can't insert the cable any more. I use high quality Anker cables, and I keep having to buy new Google Pixels over this. Replacing the USB-C port is around $160.

delecti 4y ago
I'll second the "relevant username" sentiment, but without the winky face. I've had phones break in a variety of ways, but the USB-C ports have always kept working.
jacquesm 4y ago
Username checks out ;) But seriously, yes, they are ridiculously fragile and usually only SMD soldered on, no hole through part to give it some mechanical strength. Very frustrating, I am super careful inserting USB-C connectors and have broken a couple already, fortunately not on anything expensive.
- clumsysmurf 4y ago
  Do you recommend any kind of port-saver magnetic cable ... something like https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Charging-Charger-Transfer-2018-2021/dp/B0B93VW72C https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Charging-Charger-Transfer-20... but with high speed data?
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    I haven't used anything like that, for me the problem isn't tripping over cables but basically the force required to attach the cable in the first place. I guess a magnetic pigtail would reduce the number of times I need to insert the cable but a regular USB-C extension cable would do just as well for that purpose (and that's what I use right now). That's still not perfect because the 2 cm of plug sticking out of the side of the device is long enough to put substantial leverage on the soldered part inside the device but that seems to be a given. I do try to find the shortest possible plug to minimize that force, but can't find them much shorter than that.

gambiting 4y ago

I was going to say the same thing. I don't understand how that's possible - it's incredibly frustrating.

elzbardico 4y ago

Really, compared to lightning USB-C connector is pure trash. But compared to USB-A I concede it is an improvement.

genewitch 4y ago
i always worry about the lightning connector shorting out when it's not plugged in to something.
- zrail 4y ago
  When they were babies both of my kids happily chewed on lightning cables that were plugged into a charger. They're both still here but all of those cables stopped working shortly thereafter.
- aix1 4y ago
  "When a Lightning cable is just lying somewhere connected to a charger/computer, but not connected to a device, HiFive limits current on the PWR to a really small value (around 10-15 mA according to my measurements). To enable full current, 0x74 request must be issued by Tristar and processed by HiFive." https://nyansatan.github.io/lightning/ https://nyansatan.github.io/lightning/
- rubatuga 4y ago
  Woke up with a lightning connector burning into my back, was very uncomfortable

cesarb 4y ago

The way USB-C works with adapters to legacy USB (USB-A and USB-B) is brilliant. Unlike in USB-C, in legacy USB the power roles are fixed: the USB-A socket and USB-B plug provide power (source), the USB-A plug and USB-B socket receive power (sink). A USB-C to legacy adapter always has a USB-C plug (never a USB-C socket), and one of these four legacy alternatives. If the legacy end of the cable is one which receives power (USB-A plug or USB-B socket), the USB-C end has a pull-up resistor to that power on the configuration pins, indicating to the USB-C device that this cable provides power; if the legacy end of the cable is one which provides power (USB-A socket or USB-B plug), the USB-C end has a pull-down resistor to ground on the configuration pins, indicating to the USB-C device that this cable requests power. The USB-C device only connects its power output to the socket when it sees that pull-down resistor, so the power supplies will not be shorted together if the cable always provides power to it. And the only thing necessary for an adapter, or for an USB-C device which only receives power, is a pair of resistors. And this explains your scenario: in the USB-A plug to USB-C plug case, the cable always provides power on the USB-C plug; in the USB-C to USB-C plug case, the device on the other end will only provide power when it sees the pull-down to ground, which should be provided by the device, and in your case is probably missing.