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The expensive part is not the terminals, it is providing continuous reliable service in a hostile environment with a determined adversary.

jacquesm 4y ago
These are satellite terminals, or are you suggesting that the Russians are threatening Starlink's satellites?
- Gwypaas 4y ago
  Of course, they are? If Russia can hack SpaceX's systems and divert them to ensure they do not provide service over Ukraine, why wouldn't they? Or brick all terminals by sending a malicious update? Similarly, dealing with electromagnetic interference. Thinking Russia is completely benign would be an incredibly naive take. Or simply blinded by Musk hate. This experience has allowed them to launch "Starshield", but it definitely has not been cheap.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    > If Russia can hack SpaceX's systems and divert them to ensure they do not provide service over Ukraine, why wouldn't they? That didn't happen as far as I know. > Or brick all terminals by sending a malicious update? That didn't happen either. > Similarly, dealing with electromagnetic interference. For which there is no evidence at all, in fact the only reason Starlink ever suffered an outage was for reasons which had nothing to do with the Russians. > Thinking Russia is completely benign would be an incredibly naive take. Or simply blinded by Musk hate. No, I'm totally not thinking that Russia is 'completely benign', and I'm sure they'd love to do all of those things and more. But without any evidence that it is actually happening it is as far as I'm concerned fantasy. > This experience has allowed them to launch "Starshield", but it definitely has not been cheap. So what? Really, I can't make heads or tails of your comment, that's probably on me though.
    - Gwypaas 4y ago
      Ehhhh..... Naive? My point was hypotheticals that Russia would like to achieve disconnected from the physical terminals. This is the first result when searching for it. > But Musk says it's been a difficult environment. "Starlink has resisted Russian cyberwar jamming & hacking attempts so far, but they're ramping up their efforts," he wrote(opens in new tab) on Twitter Tuesday (May 10). > According to a Reuters report(opens in new tab), which Musk also shared, a coalition of countries have said that Russia backed a cyberattack against satellite internet systems that ultimately pulled tens of thousands of modems offline shortly after Russia invaded Ukraine Feb. 24. > British Foreign Secretary Liz Truss said the attack against Viasat's KA-SAT network was "deliberate and malicious," Reuters stated(opens in new tab), and the Council of the European Union said the hack caused "indiscriminate communication outages" in Ukraine and several member states. The attacks were confirmed by the United States, Canada and Estonia, Reuters added. https://www.space.com/starlink-russian-cyberattacks-ramp-up-efforts-elon-musk https://www.space.com/starlink-russian-cyberattacks-ramp-up-... Of course, there is an ongoing effort. Simply because it seems like they have not breached Starlink does not mean it has been cheap to ensure that. Russia has, like all nations with power ambitions, a history of cyberwarfare. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberwarfare_by_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberwarfare_by_Russia
      - jacquesm 4y ago
        None of that is news. What would be news would be a success but afaik they haven't managed to do so to date. All satellite operators face these challenges and none of them see that as an extra burden but basically the kind of thing that you should expect if and when you start operating this kind of service. Inmarsat terminals have a ton of tricks up their sleeve to deal with signal jamming and other attempts to interfere with the downlink/uplink. If anything, SpaceX/Starlink has an easier time of it because their signal levels are much higher and the satellites can use phased arrays to pinpoint the receivers (in fact, they have to because they aren't geostationary and very low).
    - kortilla 4y ago
      > For which there is no evidence at all https://www.pcmag.com/news/pentagon-impressed-by-starlinks-fast-signal-jamming-workaround-in-ukraine https://www.pcmag.com/news/pentagon-impressed-by-starlinks-f... Are you in the denial phase or the ignorance one? If the former, why would the government take part in a conspiracy to pretend that Starlink didn’t require special support to work in that environment? If the latter, why would you even boldly claim “there is no evidence at all” without even doing a cursory search?

jacquesm 4y ago

These are satellite terminals, or are you suggesting that the Russians are threatening Starlink's satellites?

Gwypaas 4y ago
Of course, they are? If Russia can hack SpaceX's systems and divert them to ensure they do not provide service over Ukraine, why wouldn't they? Or brick all terminals by sending a malicious update? Similarly, dealing with electromagnetic interference. Thinking Russia is completely benign would be an incredibly naive take. Or simply blinded by Musk hate. This experience has allowed them to launch "Starshield", but it definitely has not been cheap.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  > If Russia can hack SpaceX's systems and divert them to ensure they do not provide service over Ukraine, why wouldn't they? That didn't happen as far as I know. > Or brick all terminals by sending a malicious update? That didn't happen either. > Similarly, dealing with electromagnetic interference. For which there is no evidence at all, in fact the only reason Starlink ever suffered an outage was for reasons which had nothing to do with the Russians. > Thinking Russia is completely benign would be an incredibly naive take. Or simply blinded by Musk hate. No, I'm totally not thinking that Russia is 'completely benign', and I'm sure they'd love to do all of those things and more. But without any evidence that it is actually happening it is as far as I'm concerned fantasy. > This experience has allowed them to launch "Starshield", but it definitely has not been cheap. So what? Really, I can't make heads or tails of your comment, that's probably on me though.
  - Gwypaas 4y ago
    Ehhhh..... Naive? My point was hypotheticals that Russia would like to achieve disconnected from the physical terminals. This is the first result when searching for it. > But Musk says it's been a difficult environment. "Starlink has resisted Russian cyberwar jamming & hacking attempts so far, but they're ramping up their efforts," he wrote(opens in new tab) on Twitter Tuesday (May 10). > According to a Reuters report(opens in new tab), which Musk also shared, a coalition of countries have said that Russia backed a cyberattack against satellite internet systems that ultimately pulled tens of thousands of modems offline shortly after Russia invaded Ukraine Feb. 24. > British Foreign Secretary Liz Truss said the attack against Viasat's KA-SAT network was "deliberate and malicious," Reuters stated(opens in new tab), and the Council of the European Union said the hack caused "indiscriminate communication outages" in Ukraine and several member states. The attacks were confirmed by the United States, Canada and Estonia, Reuters added. https://www.space.com/starlink-russian-cyberattacks-ramp-up-efforts-elon-musk https://www.space.com/starlink-russian-cyberattacks-ramp-up-... Of course, there is an ongoing effort. Simply because it seems like they have not breached Starlink does not mean it has been cheap to ensure that. Russia has, like all nations with power ambitions, a history of cyberwarfare. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberwarfare_by_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberwarfare_by_Russia
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      None of that is news. What would be news would be a success but afaik they haven't managed to do so to date. All satellite operators face these challenges and none of them see that as an extra burden but basically the kind of thing that you should expect if and when you start operating this kind of service. Inmarsat terminals have a ton of tricks up their sleeve to deal with signal jamming and other attempts to interfere with the downlink/uplink. If anything, SpaceX/Starlink has an easier time of it because their signal levels are much higher and the satellites can use phased arrays to pinpoint the receivers (in fact, they have to because they aren't geostationary and very low).
  - kortilla 4y ago
    > For which there is no evidence at all https://www.pcmag.com/news/pentagon-impressed-by-starlinks-fast-signal-jamming-workaround-in-ukraine https://www.pcmag.com/news/pentagon-impressed-by-starlinks-f... Are you in the denial phase or the ignorance one? If the former, why would the government take part in a conspiracy to pretend that Starlink didn’t require special support to work in that environment? If the latter, why would you even boldly claim “there is no evidence at all” without even doing a cursory search?