10 ms·

> many airlines still need to modernize. Most of the travel industry runs on old software that would horrify a lot of people here, especially those who've neve

by splonk 4y ago

> many airlines still need to modernize. Most of the travel industry runs on old software that would horrify a lot of people here, especially those who've never worked for a large, 30+ year old company. When I used to interview a lot of people I made it a point to mention some of the more "interesting" aspects so they'd know what they were getting into. One example: ever tried to book a flight a year in advance? On a lot (almost all?) of systems you can't, because the underlying date format is "DEC27". Edit to address a couple comments: logistics are hard and there are plenty of reasons why airlines wouldn't want to support booking that far out. However, the reason you can book a flight 330 days from now but not 360 days from now is almost certainly due to the date format. (I believe the windows used are less than 365 days because it's helpful to be able to have dates in the recent past. I remember seeing documentation for 360, but AA and United seem to be in the 330-340 range on their websites).

Frost1x 4y ago
While this is humorous in that there are limiting assumptions like this baked into the system, I also have to wonder, who needs or even wants to book a flight a year in advance? I dread planning out a flight 4 months in advance and dealing with the almost inevitable cascade of conflicts this introduces of juggling and rescheduling things to make things align correctly. One year makes me cringe.
- steveklabnik 4y ago
  I could see it for major holidays. I spent too much money to fly home this year because I am bad at scheduling. I would consider booking next year's flight during this year's trip just so I know it's knocked out and I don't have to worry about it.
- dendrite9 4y ago
  There are events that I can see purchasing flights well in advance for. I used to a go to a conference that was held every other year at the same time, it would have been easy to buy tickets more than a year in advance for that without much concern. Eclipses, certain sporting events, or reservations for activities with a wait list of more than a year could qualify as well. Despite that I am like you and rarely have tickets far in advance of a trip.
- masklinn 4y ago
  > I also have to wonder, who needs or even wants to book a flight a year in advance? Major holiday, destination wedding, event known long in advance (e.g. Grandma's 80s does not come as a surprise).
- LarryMullins 4y ago
  My family plans the yearly family get-together at the yearly family get-together. A year in advance. Except sometimes due to scheduling deconfliction, it's actually 10 or 11 months in advance.. or 13 or 14 months in advance. The exact date floats and sometimes we are planning trips more than a year in advance.
- Induane 4y ago
  Me for: - Annual conferences or conferences that occur every-other year - Planning family reunions because you need that kind of cat-herding lead time when you have 9 uncles/aunts on just ONE side of the family - Periods where I have some spare cash I'd like to lock in a getaway with before I spend it or something unexpected like the invasion of the Ukraine drives up fuel costs and overall prices... or a global pandemic hits - would be sweet if I could have rebooked some of my trips for for 1-2 years out when the pandemic hit - Travel for future medical stuff; at one point for 2-3 years I was taking my mom to the Cleveland Clinic every 4 months for periodic checks and it would have been super nice to be able to just book that stuff way in advance and have it all taken care of Etc etc etc I'd bet quite a few people would appreciate that ability
- SapporoChris 4y ago
  Anyone doing anything abroad for over a year. It is impossible to book a round trip ticket with depart and return dates >= 1 year.
grepfru_it 4y ago
Likely cannot book that far not because of the underlying date format, but because of jet-a fuel prices which fluctuate. Airlines typically hedge their near term purchases with longer-term futures
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
CPLX 4y ago
Airlines historically have not set their schedules more than a year in advance and it’s not clear they want to.
kenneth 4y ago
As a fun side thing, I am also a travel agent with access to some of these internal systems on the booking side. The technology is incredibly antiquated. Most of the US runs on a system called SABRE, which is basically a MS-DOS system with a text command line interface and its own language. It's all ASCII text based (and all in uppercase). It's straight out of the 80s. Travel agents need to buy special "errors" insurance to cover any losses caused by fucking it up (a typo could accidentally cancel a ticket and cause the client thousands in losses rebooking it).
- tintor 4y ago
  What are the reasons preventing flight booking software modernization?
  - nikanj 4y ago
    30 years of cumulative complexity in the existing stack, with endless edge-cases and special exceptions
    - sjm-lbm 4y ago
      .. and, as we're learning, extremely high penalties if one of those edge cases happens to cause a cascading failure.
  - cmehdy 4y ago
    The typical answer for old behemoths: it was built because it was necessary to build it, and it won't change until a change is necessary too. Wanting that change is not enough, it has to become an almost mechanical constraint, and usually the constraint gets noticed when it far outweighs the costs (and not just a little). Or is a noticeable threat to the system's existence.
  - mastax 4y ago
    Big software projects inevitably become expensive boondoggles that get everyone fired so nobody wants to do them until they're absolutely necessary.
xiphias2 4y ago
,, Most of the travel industry runs on old software that would horrify a lot of people here'' If you can see how it works, it horrifies me even more as a traveller, as from outside it just doesn't work a lot of the time. Also if you just look at the video, we all know how bad these systems are, but are not able to do anything (starting anything new in the airline industry has too much cost).
np- 4y ago
To be fair, I think allowing flights a year in advance is probably far more complicated than just updating the underlying date format. Even if they were able to solve that problem, airlines probably can't easily operationally plan that far ahead due to so many moving parts, i.e. committing to routes and schedules, planning for staffing that far ahead of time, ever changing government restrictions, fuel price fluctuations, inflation, geopolitical realities, staffing, etc. I mean, imagine if they did, and something like COVID comes along again, it would cause far, far more disruption if they had booked out the next few years in advance (we had no idea how long COVID restrictions would last while we were in the heat of it, it's only clearer now in retrospect). Also speaking as a software engineer myself, it's almost never just a software fix that will magically solve everybody else's problems, that always ends up being just wishful thinking
tveita 4y ago
There's an interesting CCC talk about security in the GDS system, if anyone would like to be suitably horrified. 6 years old so hopefully something has improved... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8WVo-YLyAg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8WVo-YLyAg

by splonk 4y ago

Frost1x 4y ago

While this is humorous in that there are limiting assumptions like this baked into the system, I also have to wonder, who needs or even wants to book a flight a year in advance? I dread planning out a flight 4 months in advance and dealing with the almost inevitable cascade of conflicts this introduces of juggling and rescheduling things to make things align correctly. One year makes me cringe.

steveklabnik 4y ago
I could see it for major holidays. I spent too much money to fly home this year because I am bad at scheduling. I would consider booking next year's flight during this year's trip just so I know it's knocked out and I don't have to worry about it.
dendrite9 4y ago
There are events that I can see purchasing flights well in advance for. I used to a go to a conference that was held every other year at the same time, it would have been easy to buy tickets more than a year in advance for that without much concern. Eclipses, certain sporting events, or reservations for activities with a wait list of more than a year could qualify as well. Despite that I am like you and rarely have tickets far in advance of a trip.
masklinn 4y ago
> I also have to wonder, who needs or even wants to book a flight a year in advance? Major holiday, destination wedding, event known long in advance (e.g. Grandma's 80s does not come as a surprise).
LarryMullins 4y ago
My family plans the yearly family get-together at the yearly family get-together. A year in advance. Except sometimes due to scheduling deconfliction, it's actually 10 or 11 months in advance.. or 13 or 14 months in advance. The exact date floats and sometimes we are planning trips more than a year in advance.
Induane 4y ago
Me for: - Annual conferences or conferences that occur every-other year - Planning family reunions because you need that kind of cat-herding lead time when you have 9 uncles/aunts on just ONE side of the family - Periods where I have some spare cash I'd like to lock in a getaway with before I spend it or something unexpected like the invasion of the Ukraine drives up fuel costs and overall prices... or a global pandemic hits - would be sweet if I could have rebooked some of my trips for for 1-2 years out when the pandemic hit - Travel for future medical stuff; at one point for 2-3 years I was taking my mom to the Cleveland Clinic every 4 months for periodic checks and it would have been super nice to be able to just book that stuff way in advance and have it all taken care of Etc etc etc I'd bet quite a few people would appreciate that ability
SapporoChris 4y ago
Anyone doing anything abroad for over a year. It is impossible to book a round trip ticket with depart and return dates >= 1 year.

grepfru_it 4y ago

Likely cannot book that far not because of the underlying date format, but because of jet-a fuel prices which fluctuate. Airlines typically hedge their near term purchases with longer-term futures

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

CPLX 4y ago

Airlines historically have not set their schedules more than a year in advance and it’s not clear they want to.

kenneth 4y ago

As a fun side thing, I am also a travel agent with access to some of these internal systems on the booking side. The technology is incredibly antiquated. Most of the US runs on a system called SABRE, which is basically a MS-DOS system with a text command line interface and its own language. It's all ASCII text based (and all in uppercase). It's straight out of the 80s. Travel agents need to buy special "errors" insurance to cover any losses caused by fucking it up (a typo could accidentally cancel a ticket and cause the client thousands in losses rebooking it).

tintor 4y ago
What are the reasons preventing flight booking software modernization?
- nikanj 4y ago
  30 years of cumulative complexity in the existing stack, with endless edge-cases and special exceptions
  - sjm-lbm 4y ago
    .. and, as we're learning, extremely high penalties if one of those edge cases happens to cause a cascading failure.
- cmehdy 4y ago
  The typical answer for old behemoths: it was built because it was necessary to build it, and it won't change until a change is necessary too. Wanting that change is not enough, it has to become an almost mechanical constraint, and usually the constraint gets noticed when it far outweighs the costs (and not just a little). Or is a noticeable threat to the system's existence.
- mastax 4y ago
  Big software projects inevitably become expensive boondoggles that get everyone fired so nobody wants to do them until they're absolutely necessary.

xiphias2 4y ago

,, Most of the travel industry runs on old software that would horrify a lot of people here'' If you can see how it works, it horrifies me even more as a traveller, as from outside it just doesn't work a lot of the time. Also if you just look at the video, we all know how bad these systems are, but are not able to do anything (starting anything new in the airline industry has too much cost).

np- 4y ago

To be fair, I think allowing flights a year in advance is probably far more complicated than just updating the underlying date format. Even if they were able to solve that problem, airlines probably can't easily operationally plan that far ahead due to so many moving parts, i.e. committing to routes and schedules, planning for staffing that far ahead of time, ever changing government restrictions, fuel price fluctuations, inflation, geopolitical realities, staffing, etc. I mean, imagine if they did, and something like COVID comes along again, it would cause far, far more disruption if they had booked out the next few years in advance (we had no idea how long COVID restrictions would last while we were in the heat of it, it's only clearer now in retrospect). Also speaking as a software engineer myself, it's almost never just a software fix that will magically solve everybody else's problems, that always ends up being just wishful thinking

tveita 4y ago

There's an interesting CCC talk about security in the GDS system, if anyone would like to be suitably horrified. 6 years old so hopefully something has improved... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8WVo-YLyAg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8WVo-YLyAg