4 ms·

Starting from WWI western world is moving from what was basically complete freedom of movement to a corral. Think the best response would be something in line o

by FpUser 4y ago

Starting from WWI western world is moving from what was basically complete freedom of movement to a corral. Think the best response would be something in line of go fuck yourself. No visa waiver - be my guest and have your tourism industry go belly up. Once tourism industry goes economic cooperation might eventually follow. Maybe this will teach our masters a bit. P.S. Being originally from USSR freedom of movement was one of the things I've admired greatly about the west. After 30 years it is being vaporized in front of my eyes. This is insanity and is very sad. And we are doing this crap to ourselves. Osamas and Putins of the world must be having time of their lives.

__jambo 4y ago
I hope we see some strong posturing from EU leaders. It seems like Europe is trying at least to fight in the right direction on this, while the anglosphere slowly becomes another version of China.
ajsnigrutin 4y ago
This is asuming that EU will work in their (our) interest. For me it seems that most of EU works with interests of other actors, especially US, from Ursula downwards, so they might give the US access and ignore their own people... again.
- sofixa 4y ago
  Where is this coming from? The vast majority of what the EU does doesn't concern anyone but the EU, and is sometimes actively hurting non-EU entities like American corporations. Be it the GDPR, the Digital Markets or Services Acts, the Covid recovery funds, farming subsidies, various projects to improve random hyper local infrastructure, etc etc etc.
  - lakomen 4y ago
    Idk if you've been asleep the last 10 months regarding the politics of Ukraine, which isn't even an EU member. VdL bends over backwards on anything the US asks of her. How she even became the head of the EU council can only be explained with corruption. And that's also the main reason why the right is on the rise on the EU, because they don't want an undemocratic overlord. The irony is real.
    - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
      Yep... people are getting really fed up with the current state of the EU (especially the unelected leadership), and even when locally some "alternative" is elected, they go along with whatever the heads in EU tell them... Considering the history, sooner or later another failed artist will represent a real "alternative", and considering i'm a slav in the first line of slavic countries the the south, I'd prefer some EU-wide changes before that happens.
      - sofixa 4y ago
        > Yep... people are getting really fed up with the current state of the EU (especially the unelected leadership You're going to have to provide a source here. All the polls I've seen have indicated that the vast majority of EU citizens support thr actions of the EU with regards to Ukraine (helping them with financial, humanitarian and military aid, and hosting their refugees) and Covid (the relief funds).
    - sofixa 4y ago
      The vast majority of EU people and member states support helping Ukraine over bending over backwards to Putin's genocidal regime. von der Leyen is a terribly incompetent person, and shouldn't be allowed anywhere close to a place with power. Nonetheless the current EU actions are in line with what the EU wants. The only exceptions are annoying fringe groups, and Hungary which is ruled by such a fringe group. > Ukraine, which isn't even an EU member So fuck 'em and let them die at the hands of a brutal invader or do you mean something else? Appeasement doesn't work, and the countries that have the most to lose if Ukraine falls, like Poland and Romania, are very much in the EU.
sneak 4y ago
> No visa waiver - be my guest and have your tourism industry go belly up. Unfortunately for your plan, Yellowstone will still be Yellowstone, and New York will still be New York. I agree with your attitude, but this "well, let them hang themselves" attitude just means the US ends up with the money and the data (via a slower path). A lack of visa waiver won't significantly negate tourism; there are a lot of attractions in the US.
- bombolo 4y ago
  The attraction density in europe is very much higher.
- FpUser 4y ago
  >"there are a lot of attractions in the US." There are a lot of attractions everywhere.
omgomgomgomg 4y ago
I understand before ww1 passports werent even a thing, it was a "temporary" measure. However, freedom of movement within the EU works flawlessly, its just that once youre in a new place and want to settle down, the old habits prevail, opening a bank account and such should be easy, but good luck with that.

by FpUser 4y ago

__jambo 4y ago

I hope we see some strong posturing from EU leaders. It seems like Europe is trying at least to fight in the right direction on this, while the anglosphere slowly becomes another version of China.

ajsnigrutin 4y ago

This is asuming that EU will work in their (our) interest. For me it seems that most of EU works with interests of other actors, especially US, from Ursula downwards, so they might give the US access and ignore their own people... again.

sofixa 4y ago
Where is this coming from? The vast majority of what the EU does doesn't concern anyone but the EU, and is sometimes actively hurting non-EU entities like American corporations. Be it the GDPR, the Digital Markets or Services Acts, the Covid recovery funds, farming subsidies, various projects to improve random hyper local infrastructure, etc etc etc.
- lakomen 4y ago
  Idk if you've been asleep the last 10 months regarding the politics of Ukraine, which isn't even an EU member. VdL bends over backwards on anything the US asks of her. How she even became the head of the EU council can only be explained with corruption. And that's also the main reason why the right is on the rise on the EU, because they don't want an undemocratic overlord. The irony is real.
  - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
    Yep... people are getting really fed up with the current state of the EU (especially the unelected leadership), and even when locally some "alternative" is elected, they go along with whatever the heads in EU tell them... Considering the history, sooner or later another failed artist will represent a real "alternative", and considering i'm a slav in the first line of slavic countries the the south, I'd prefer some EU-wide changes before that happens.
    - sofixa 4y ago
      > Yep... people are getting really fed up with the current state of the EU (especially the unelected leadership You're going to have to provide a source here. All the polls I've seen have indicated that the vast majority of EU citizens support thr actions of the EU with regards to Ukraine (helping them with financial, humanitarian and military aid, and hosting their refugees) and Covid (the relief funds).
  - sofixa 4y ago
    The vast majority of EU people and member states support helping Ukraine over bending over backwards to Putin's genocidal regime. von der Leyen is a terribly incompetent person, and shouldn't be allowed anywhere close to a place with power. Nonetheless the current EU actions are in line with what the EU wants. The only exceptions are annoying fringe groups, and Hungary which is ruled by such a fringe group. > Ukraine, which isn't even an EU member So fuck 'em and let them die at the hands of a brutal invader or do you mean something else? Appeasement doesn't work, and the countries that have the most to lose if Ukraine falls, like Poland and Romania, are very much in the EU.

sneak 4y ago

> No visa waiver - be my guest and have your tourism industry go belly up. Unfortunately for your plan, Yellowstone will still be Yellowstone, and New York will still be New York. I agree with your attitude, but this "well, let them hang themselves" attitude just means the US ends up with the money and the data (via a slower path). A lack of visa waiver won't significantly negate tourism; there are a lot of attractions in the US.

bombolo 4y ago
The attraction density in europe is very much higher.
FpUser 4y ago
>"there are a lot of attractions in the US." There are a lot of attractions everywhere.

omgomgomgomg 4y ago

I understand before ww1 passports werent even a thing, it was a "temporary" measure. However, freedom of movement within the EU works flawlessly, its just that once youre in a new place and want to settle down, the old habits prevail, opening a bank account and such should be easy, but good luck with that.