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Is there truly freedom? This is a deep question beyond patronizing insults about primitiveness. What freedom is there truly, when humans are so prone to influen

Is there truly freedom? This is a deep question beyond patronizing insults about primitiveness. What freedom is there truly, when humans are so prone to influences that would seem to chain them. What freedom is there if one becomes addicted to some substance, for example? What freedom is there in being distracted from one’s purpose and higher rational aims due to being in a temptous environment? I think you will not find “freedom” has much value if it is trapped in loops of dopamine

jemmyw 4y ago
What makes those higher rational aims so special? Why are they higher? Aren't you also distracted from your "purpose" by needing to eat and rest? So why not also by the need for beautiful company? You don't really have a purpose in the greater scheme of things. Your desire to not be distracted shouldn't impinge on others. If it's so important to you then lock yourself away rather than chaining the dress code of women or anyone you might find attractive.
- erenyeager 4y ago
  You and I are different and I have no agreement with your conclusions. Eat and rest are also things that do well to be moderated. You mention chains but modesty and purity is a form of freedom from basal desire and unpleasantness. And many times in society we make socially responsible decisions. For example, it is pretty much understandable that drinking culture in the US with driving has been dangerous, thus DUI laws. Similarly, encouraging modesty in society and cultivating shyness protects against many harms to society, like increased relationships out of wedlock, greed (modesty is also about humbleness and avoiding looking at what others have), and objectification/commercialization of the human body.
  - jemmyw 4y ago
    Nothing wrong with relationships out of wedlock. That's how you find out who you like and what you like. You have your freedom concept upside down. Like I say, you are free to lock yourself in a room if you can't control your own desires, and that way the rest of us can get on with our lives. This sounds like your problem and nobody elses.
    - erenyeager 4y ago
      Many examples worldwide of people getting married happily and successfully without extended courting, cohabitation, and premarital relations. And you are free to leave off arguing and jabs but seems that desire still pulls you in. I am done with this discussion, and freely choosing to end it.
      - jemmyw 4y ago
        Sure, there's many examples of many things, but that's not really significant. The point of being free to court, cohabit and have relations is that you're also free not to do those things. Why restrict other people from doing what they want in this context just because you don't want to? Yeah but I'm OK with it, and I kept coming back because you never address the central issue. Why do other people have to moderate themselves because of your desires? I doubt you'll read this but here's a simple thought experiment. If you went away on vacation and came back and found that everyone in your office had decided to work wearing only underwear, for how long exactly would this bother you and prevent work? I reckon I'd be distracted for maybe 5 minutes. I've seen all there is to see already, as has every other adult in the room. Desire should come from intimacy and possibility, not from seeing someone dressed in what is, in your opinion, provocative. What about the people who find moderate dress sexy and overtly sexy clothing a turn off, where do they exist in your world?

jemmyw 4y ago

What makes those higher rational aims so special? Why are they higher? Aren't you also distracted from your "purpose" by needing to eat and rest? So why not also by the need for beautiful company? You don't really have a purpose in the greater scheme of things. Your desire to not be distracted shouldn't impinge on others. If it's so important to you then lock yourself away rather than chaining the dress code of women or anyone you might find attractive.

erenyeager 4y ago
You and I are different and I have no agreement with your conclusions. Eat and rest are also things that do well to be moderated. You mention chains but modesty and purity is a form of freedom from basal desire and unpleasantness. And many times in society we make socially responsible decisions. For example, it is pretty much understandable that drinking culture in the US with driving has been dangerous, thus DUI laws. Similarly, encouraging modesty in society and cultivating shyness protects against many harms to society, like increased relationships out of wedlock, greed (modesty is also about humbleness and avoiding looking at what others have), and objectification/commercialization of the human body.
- jemmyw 4y ago
  Nothing wrong with relationships out of wedlock. That's how you find out who you like and what you like. You have your freedom concept upside down. Like I say, you are free to lock yourself in a room if you can't control your own desires, and that way the rest of us can get on with our lives. This sounds like your problem and nobody elses.
  - erenyeager 4y ago
    Many examples worldwide of people getting married happily and successfully without extended courting, cohabitation, and premarital relations. And you are free to leave off arguing and jabs but seems that desire still pulls you in. I am done with this discussion, and freely choosing to end it.
    - jemmyw 4y ago
      Sure, there's many examples of many things, but that's not really significant. The point of being free to court, cohabit and have relations is that you're also free not to do those things. Why restrict other people from doing what they want in this context just because you don't want to? Yeah but I'm OK with it, and I kept coming back because you never address the central issue. Why do other people have to moderate themselves because of your desires? I doubt you'll read this but here's a simple thought experiment. If you went away on vacation and came back and found that everyone in your office had decided to work wearing only underwear, for how long exactly would this bother you and prevent work? I reckon I'd be distracted for maybe 5 minutes. I've seen all there is to see already, as has every other adult in the room. Desire should come from intimacy and possibility, not from seeing someone dressed in what is, in your opinion, provocative. What about the people who find moderate dress sexy and overtly sexy clothing a turn off, where do they exist in your world?