4 ms·

Yeah, I do not see how stopping the spoofing (which I am all for doing) would be anything but a minor inconvenience for them.

by jeltz 4y ago

imglorp 4y ago
I think the subtext is that given valid caller IDs, then block lists can be made. The US FTC might manage them like it does the do-not-call lists, or the perhaps the US Attorney's office, after some criminal complaints. Ideally, the telco would implement these block lists, but also ideally, they could be traded around like web ad block lists for individuals to load on their phones. I think we all know scam calls are a serious source of revenue for carriers, so they will need to be led to this conclusion by force. None of that happy future would come without true caller id, thus the resistence from carriers to fixing spoofing.
- jeltz 4y ago
  > I think we all know scam calls are a serious source of revenue for carriers, so they will need to be led to this conclusion by force. Why would they be a major revenue source? The carriers make their money from normal users, not dodgy call centers.
  - imglorp 4y ago
    Logically, there must be enough benefit for them carrying spoofed robocalls to risk regulatory attention AND driving away all their voice revenue. Many people have stopped answering their phones altogether since voice calls became unusable.
    - supertrope 4y ago
      Voice revenue has been replaced by cellphone bills which are mostly broadband.
  - supertrope 4y ago
    Phone companies make money by the minute.
jacquesm 4y ago
Enough minor inconveniences and the barrier to entry will go up, this will favor the larger players but those you can then go after with other means. It's never going to be a one-stop solution. Ideally there would be a warning that a call does not originate locally, routing the call through a local representative would generate yet another signal that you might be able to close off, including the possibility to declare the possession or hosting of certain gear illegal. You'd have to maybe do some pattern matching to spot problematic numbers and/or have a place to report them easily. If the will was really there I'm pretty sure this problem could be tackled.
- bbbbb5 4y ago
  Have you seen how elaborate schemes small players on sites like crimemarket.is engage in for their scams?
  - aardvarkr 4y ago
    Wow that site was trippy. It’s easy to forget what the dark side of the web looks like
    - bbbbb5 4y ago
      Yeah, and this is almost the bottom of the food chain, the only people below crimemarket are those too dumb to use internet forums. Anyone can easily buy European bank accounts opened with fake IDs, or money laundering services where you're provided an IBAN and receive a % of the money sent there to your cryptocurrency wallet. Want a fake passport good enough to travel with? No problem, will just run you a 1000 euros.
- jeltz 4y ago
  > If the will was really there I'm pretty sure this problem could be tackled. Probably, but not with any of your proposed methods. I have talked with some SMS spammers and none of what you proposed would affect them. And for SMS spammers these inconveniences are a much bigger part of the cost of doing operations than for a company which needs to have employees in a call center. They have to spend a lot of money on buying new SIM cards as old ones get blocked.
toast0 4y ago
Stopping the spoofing makes it easier to provide actionable reports. Right now, an actionable report really needs a traced call, which is hard to actually make. Certainly, it doesn't get you right to a chargable person, but it gets you a lot more than today.

Yeah, I do not see how stopping the spoofing (which I am all for doing) would be anything but a minor inconvenience for them.

by jeltz 4y ago

Yeah, I do not see how stopping the spoofing (which I am all for doing) would be anything but a minor inconvenience for them.

imglorp 4y ago

I think the subtext is that given valid caller IDs, then block lists can be made. The US FTC might manage them like it does the do-not-call lists, or the perhaps the US Attorney's office, after some criminal complaints. Ideally, the telco would implement these block lists, but also ideally, they could be traded around like web ad block lists for individuals to load on their phones. I think we all know scam calls are a serious source of revenue for carriers, so they will need to be led to this conclusion by force. None of that happy future would come without true caller id, thus the resistence from carriers to fixing spoofing.

jeltz 4y ago
> I think we all know scam calls are a serious source of revenue for carriers, so they will need to be led to this conclusion by force. Why would they be a major revenue source? The carriers make their money from normal users, not dodgy call centers.
- imglorp 4y ago
  Logically, there must be enough benefit for them carrying spoofed robocalls to risk regulatory attention AND driving away all their voice revenue. Many people have stopped answering their phones altogether since voice calls became unusable.
  - supertrope 4y ago
    Voice revenue has been replaced by cellphone bills which are mostly broadband.
- supertrope 4y ago
  Phone companies make money by the minute.

jacquesm 4y ago

Enough minor inconveniences and the barrier to entry will go up, this will favor the larger players but those you can then go after with other means. It's never going to be a one-stop solution. Ideally there would be a warning that a call does not originate locally, routing the call through a local representative would generate yet another signal that you might be able to close off, including the possibility to declare the possession or hosting of certain gear illegal. You'd have to maybe do some pattern matching to spot problematic numbers and/or have a place to report them easily. If the will was really there I'm pretty sure this problem could be tackled.

bbbbb5 4y ago
Have you seen how elaborate schemes small players on sites like crimemarket.is engage in for their scams?
- aardvarkr 4y ago
  Wow that site was trippy. It’s easy to forget what the dark side of the web looks like
  - bbbbb5 4y ago
    Yeah, and this is almost the bottom of the food chain, the only people below crimemarket are those too dumb to use internet forums. Anyone can easily buy European bank accounts opened with fake IDs, or money laundering services where you're provided an IBAN and receive a % of the money sent there to your cryptocurrency wallet. Want a fake passport good enough to travel with? No problem, will just run you a 1000 euros.
jeltz 4y ago
> If the will was really there I'm pretty sure this problem could be tackled. Probably, but not with any of your proposed methods. I have talked with some SMS spammers and none of what you proposed would affect them. And for SMS spammers these inconveniences are a much bigger part of the cost of doing operations than for a company which needs to have employees in a call center. They have to spend a lot of money on buying new SIM cards as old ones get blocked.

toast0 4y ago

Stopping the spoofing makes it easier to provide actionable reports. Right now, an actionable report really needs a traced call, which is hard to actually make. Certainly, it doesn't get you right to a chargable person, but it gets you a lot more than today.