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I think despite the goals of GDPR/cookie law being laudable, it really has turned into a complete trainwreck for the European tech sector IMO. I work with tech

I think despite the goals of GDPR/cookie law being laudable, it really has turned into a complete trainwreck for the European tech sector IMO. I work with tech product companies in both the EU and US. EU companies are completely stymed by GDPR/privacy implications. Features are often delayed for weeks/months as it goes through endless cycles of GDPR etc compliance discussion, which often doesn't have a concrete answer in the end! Smaller tech companies in the US are in the whole not doing this. They are moving far, far, faster because of it. It really is night and day. Sidenote: EU tech companies tend to be much more risk averse than US ones in general. This means GDPR really scares leadership there and the often lose the bigger picture. The worst thing about these laws are that the regional/national courts are all interpreting them differently, often with major implications. I think we will actually get to the point where many tech products just block the EU from using them. It is impossible to comply with the law IMO with so many conflicting interperations from regional courts and if the fines keep ratcheting up it will become uneconomic to serve the EU market.

RajT88 4y ago
> I think despite the goals of GDPR/cookie law being laudable, it really has turned into a complete trainwreck for the European tech sector IMO. It's a giant pain for my work for sure. Anything which could potentially have some intersection at some point with European customers has to fully comply with all of these EU privacy regulations. Usually that means taking an already clunky internal system and adding a bunch of restrictions to it to make it even more clunky. Also banning some useful practices and tooling that me and people like me use for our day-to-day. Yes, some of this is due to internal dysfunction.
- snowpid 4y ago
  Could you specify which "useful practices and tooling" do you mean?
  - RajT88 4y ago
    I've thought about it, and no, I cannot.
    - snowpid 4y ago
      TBH, it is weird, if you say, EU coders can not use useful practice and tools but you can not tell, which.
      - RajT88 4y ago
        That was not what I was saying actually. I was suggesting US employees on my team of all types (not just coders) are restricted by EU laws in what tools and processes they can leverage. My reason for not wanting to give details is because this could reveal things about my employer which would possibly put me at compliance risk.
Zanfa 4y ago
It seems to be more a case of companies not actually wanting to follow the the law and do the straightforward thing - not collect personally identifiable information unless absolutely necessary for the functionality of the product / service. Instead they want to continue business as usual, trying to work around the law with as many dark patterns as they can possibly fit into a cookie popup.
- martinald 4y ago
  I wasn't really meaning this exact case. But, so much time and effort being spent on _cookie popup windows_! I imagine 99%+ of users click accept regardless (even if reject is just as easy to click).
  - snowpid 4y ago
    I doubt the last sentence.
monsieurcanard 4y ago
From the article: >The website also lacked a button for users to reject cookies as simply as accepting them, CNIL said, where two clicks were required to refuse all cookies while only one was needed to accept them. No need for FUD and fear mongering, "oh no it's so complicated, every town in Europe has different laws, what can we doooooo we are doomed someone please help us" And it's not even difficult. We do it every day. When I go to the shop I take products in my basket, and then I extend cash (or a card) to the cashier. I don't ask them if they are sure they want to accept payment, or offer them to take the money only in the form of 10,000 coins of 2 cents, or throw the money in the air and ask them to catch it, etc. If American corporations were not run by psychopaths this would not even be a debate. Dark patterns are evil and I hope corporations using them cynically will continue to get punished to the tune of millions of dollars.
bootsmann 4y ago
I work for an EU tech startup and our experience is entirely the opposite. The trick here is to think about how you use the data before you collect it and not just collect whatever you get by default because thats how you speedrun ending up in the courts.
- martinald 4y ago
  But when you are quickly iterating on products you don't know every permutation ahead of time on how you are going to use data?
  - bootsmann 4y ago
    I'd be really interested in what kind of products you're talking about here where blindly collecting customer data ahead of time somehow brings value.

RajT88 4y ago

> I think despite the goals of GDPR/cookie law being laudable, it really has turned into a complete trainwreck for the European tech sector IMO. It's a giant pain for my work for sure. Anything which could potentially have some intersection at some point with European customers has to fully comply with all of these EU privacy regulations. Usually that means taking an already clunky internal system and adding a bunch of restrictions to it to make it even more clunky. Also banning some useful practices and tooling that me and people like me use for our day-to-day. Yes, some of this is due to internal dysfunction.

snowpid 4y ago
Could you specify which "useful practices and tooling" do you mean?
- RajT88 4y ago
  I've thought about it, and no, I cannot.
  - snowpid 4y ago
    TBH, it is weird, if you say, EU coders can not use useful practice and tools but you can not tell, which.
    - RajT88 4y ago
      That was not what I was saying actually. I was suggesting US employees on my team of all types (not just coders) are restricted by EU laws in what tools and processes they can leverage. My reason for not wanting to give details is because this could reveal things about my employer which would possibly put me at compliance risk.

Zanfa 4y ago

It seems to be more a case of companies not actually wanting to follow the the law and do the straightforward thing - not collect personally identifiable information unless absolutely necessary for the functionality of the product / service. Instead they want to continue business as usual, trying to work around the law with as many dark patterns as they can possibly fit into a cookie popup.

martinald 4y ago
I wasn't really meaning this exact case. But, so much time and effort being spent on _cookie popup windows_! I imagine 99%+ of users click accept regardless (even if reject is just as easy to click).
- snowpid 4y ago
  I doubt the last sentence.

monsieurcanard 4y ago

From the article: >The website also lacked a button for users to reject cookies as simply as accepting them, CNIL said, where two clicks were required to refuse all cookies while only one was needed to accept them. No need for FUD and fear mongering, "oh no it's so complicated, every town in Europe has different laws, what can we doooooo we are doomed someone please help us" And it's not even difficult. We do it every day. When I go to the shop I take products in my basket, and then I extend cash (or a card) to the cashier. I don't ask them if they are sure they want to accept payment, or offer them to take the money only in the form of 10,000 coins of 2 cents, or throw the money in the air and ask them to catch it, etc. If American corporations were not run by psychopaths this would not even be a debate. Dark patterns are evil and I hope corporations using them cynically will continue to get punished to the tune of millions of dollars.

bootsmann 4y ago

I work for an EU tech startup and our experience is entirely the opposite. The trick here is to think about how you use the data before you collect it and not just collect whatever you get by default because thats how you speedrun ending up in the courts.

martinald 4y ago
But when you are quickly iterating on products you don't know every permutation ahead of time on how you are going to use data?
- bootsmann 4y ago
  I'd be really interested in what kind of products you're talking about here where blindly collecting customer data ahead of time somehow brings value.