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> I had never been made to feel like a freak for being a programmer until I moved to Sweden. Are you saying that Sweden is a sexist society? Do you mind me ask

> I had never been made to feel like a freak for being a programmer until I moved to Sweden. Are you saying that Sweden is a sexist society? Do you mind me asking where have you been before?

unknownsky 4y ago
I have lived in a handful of different countries. I'm criticizing the idea that it's so simple to say one country is more sexist or more equal than another because there are so many metrics you can use to measure equality. Sweden beats a lot of countries when it comes to a strongly protected right to parental leave for both men and women. But Sweden is behind many other countries when it comes to stereotypes and assumptions about what jobs men or women should be doing. So it's meaningless to make a blanket statement that one country is more equal than another.
- ShredKazoo 4y ago
  This Swedish website actually claims that tech is a problem area for Sweden: https://sweden.se/life/equality/gender-equality https://sweden.se/life/equality/gender-equality There's a link to this report: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5501a836e4b0472e6124f984/t/5ef325ab518cd32c6b5589ff/1592993207371/TECH_DUDES_2020_WEB.pdf https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5501a836e4b0472e6124f... "Every third woman who responded to the survey, sent out by Allbright to employees at the tech companies, reports that she has been discriminated against"
  - AlexTWithBeard 4y ago
    > "Every third woman who responded to the survey, sent out by Allbright to employees at the tech companies, reports that she has been discriminated against" Which - putting my boring hat on - doesn't mean she was discriminated against.
    - fsociety 4y ago
      So.. some person on an Internet forum is better equipped to determine if it is discrimination than the person who experienced it? Good luck.
null_object 4y ago
> Are you saying that Sweden is a sexist society? Sweden is such an interesting paradox: womens’ rights to work in different fields and (mostly) on an equal footing are protected in law, and (in my experience) in practice. And yet in many ways I find it generally the most gender-divided country I’ve experienced, and I’ve even lived in countries that most people would consider very sexist, like the UK and Spain. There are strong traditions of socializing mostly as a group of women or a group of men, inviting all your girlfriends or male friends for dinner (“tjej/herrmiddag”), meeting friends at certain cafés or restaurants that are almost 100% gendered (this can have a comical effect of being the only male in a café filled with 50 females). Away from the larger towns there is still a strong macho culture, with cars and hunting being as popular as any redneck county in the States, and with all the usual horror-stories of growing-up gay or a misfit, before moving to Stockholm or Gothenburg. It’s fascinating to me to read outsider’s perspectives of Sweden, as I shared that impression before coming here. Otoh it always gladdens my heart to see a female roadworker, digging a hole alongside her male colleagues without it seeming odd or misplaced.
- sshine 4y ago
  > it always gladdens my heart to see a female roadworker Sure, but a female coalminer?
  - heavenlyblue 4y ago
    Please tell me how many men willingly (having had other choice) would go doing road works :) Or working at a coal mine on thaf matter.
    - ss108 4y ago
      I have helped defend claims brought by coal miners against their employers, and, while I obviously am restrained from giving specifics, a number of the miners were not without skills that would permit them to work in mines, yet they persisted in working in mines.
      - 4y ago

> I had never been made to feel like a freak for being a programmer until I moved to Sweden. Are you saying that Sweden is a sexist society? Do you mind me asking where have you been before?

unknownsky 4y ago

I have lived in a handful of different countries. I'm criticizing the idea that it's so simple to say one country is more sexist or more equal than another because there are so many metrics you can use to measure equality. Sweden beats a lot of countries when it comes to a strongly protected right to parental leave for both men and women. But Sweden is behind many other countries when it comes to stereotypes and assumptions about what jobs men or women should be doing. So it's meaningless to make a blanket statement that one country is more equal than another.

ShredKazoo 4y ago
This Swedish website actually claims that tech is a problem area for Sweden: https://sweden.se/life/equality/gender-equality https://sweden.se/life/equality/gender-equality There's a link to this report: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5501a836e4b0472e6124f984/t/5ef325ab518cd32c6b5589ff/1592993207371/TECH_DUDES_2020_WEB.pdf https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5501a836e4b0472e6124f... "Every third woman who responded to the survey, sent out by Allbright to employees at the tech companies, reports that she has been discriminated against"
- AlexTWithBeard 4y ago
  > "Every third woman who responded to the survey, sent out by Allbright to employees at the tech companies, reports that she has been discriminated against" Which - putting my boring hat on - doesn't mean she was discriminated against.
  - fsociety 4y ago
    So.. some person on an Internet forum is better equipped to determine if it is discrimination than the person who experienced it? Good luck.

null_object 4y ago

> Are you saying that Sweden is a sexist society? Sweden is such an interesting paradox: womens’ rights to work in different fields and (mostly) on an equal footing are protected in law, and (in my experience) in practice. And yet in many ways I find it generally the most gender-divided country I’ve experienced, and I’ve even lived in countries that most people would consider very sexist, like the UK and Spain. There are strong traditions of socializing mostly as a group of women or a group of men, inviting all your girlfriends or male friends for dinner (“tjej/herrmiddag”), meeting friends at certain cafés or restaurants that are almost 100% gendered (this can have a comical effect of being the only male in a café filled with 50 females). Away from the larger towns there is still a strong macho culture, with cars and hunting being as popular as any redneck county in the States, and with all the usual horror-stories of growing-up gay or a misfit, before moving to Stockholm or Gothenburg. It’s fascinating to me to read outsider’s perspectives of Sweden, as I shared that impression before coming here. Otoh it always gladdens my heart to see a female roadworker, digging a hole alongside her male colleagues without it seeming odd or misplaced.

sshine 4y ago
> it always gladdens my heart to see a female roadworker Sure, but a female coalminer?
- heavenlyblue 4y ago
  Please tell me how many men willingly (having had other choice) would go doing road works :) Or working at a coal mine on thaf matter.
  - ss108 4y ago
    I have helped defend claims brought by coal miners against their employers, and, while I obviously am restrained from giving specifics, a number of the miners were not without skills that would permit them to work in mines, yet they persisted in working in mines.
    - 4y ago