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The problem with running criminal business is that as soon as he tries to scale, he would inevitably and very seriously piss off lots of people. That would put

The problem with running criminal business is that as soon as he tries to scale, he would inevitably and very seriously piss off lots of people. That would put extra pressure on law enforcement to catch the thieves and they would eventually be caught. Next step is several years in jail and close monitoring of the future crime activities. End result - the only expertise that he would gain over the years (in stealing) would be not marketable.

mobileed 15y ago
no, the one problem with a criminal business is that once you make a mistake, it's typically a long time (many years in prison) before you get another shot. Non criminals get many do-overs for their mistakes without a waiting period.
m0nastic 15y ago
So, there are artificial constraints to the scalability of an operation like his. For starters, all territory is split up among the different crews who run them. That they do this democratically and unanimously without anyone muscling in on surrounding territory is something I've never quite figured out; but it's been working for forty years. That limitation on potential territory makes you maximize your resources in the geographic areas you control. You get to the point where you know the best neighborhoods for your guys to work based on time-of-day, holidays, local sports schedules, which neighborhoods are composed of people who primarily have others over for the holidays, vs. which neighborhoods primarily go somewhere else to celebrate, etc. So there is a pretty small limit to how large an operation like that gets, but he's able to pay for his house, send his kids all to private school, and ensure they all can go to any college they want. It's a decent "lifestyle business", minus the fact that it's a terrible thing to do to people, and unbelievably dangerous.
- dennisgorelik 15y ago
  > all territory is split up among the different crews That's probably not that much due to negotiation, but because smarter team tips off police about criminal activity of competing team, and competing team ends up in jail. I would guess that more aggressive team is more likely to end up in jail, which causes natural evolution toward less greedy teams. Still, stealing is a stupid choice for people capable of running efficient organization.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
sathishmanohar 15y ago
>> The problem with running criminal business is that as soon as he tries to scale, he would inevitably and very seriously piss off lots of people. Why would he want to scale? To launch an IPO? Come on Bro.
- dennisgorelik 15y ago
  The same reason he launched his criminal business in the first place - to make some easy money.
  - sathishmanohar 15y ago
    I don't want to comment on all criminal business. I'm against murder, rape, kidnap and many other crimes. In my opinion prostitution and theft fall in the gray area. Risk-Reward balance in theft is probably the same as in every other risky business. The difference is barrier to entry is so low. That makes all the difference. Alright, I'll just say this, because I don't want to look like a guy who takes moral high-ground on issues. I got my bike stolen, few years before, I was broke at that time, in a job that doesn't pay at all. I was not crazy about the thief at all. My insurance company paid me after a year, which I used to buy my first web server, which led to me starting my web design business. I try not to put material possessions above human beings, I lost my bike. But, I don't want to put the thief in jail, and steal years of his lifetime.
    - dennisgorelik 15y ago
      Do you have better alternative than jail when you are dealing with thieves? I guess 2x loss monetary fine could be a good replacement to jail time for first time thieves.
      - sathishmanohar 15y ago
        IMO starting with "what makes them steal" and fixing it, will deliver better results than, "how do we stop them from stealing anymore".
CamperBob 15y ago
Next step is several years in jail and close monitoring of the future crime activities. The real problem is the ridiculously lax penalties for car theft in many jurisdictions. In the Seattle, WA area, you basically don't even see the inside of a cell until your third or fourth conviction. (One news article I found at http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20020103&slug=cartheft03m0 http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=200... contains a quote to the effect that a thief would have to be caught stealing up to seven cars before being punished with prison time.) Given the lack of interest in auto theft on the part of the legislature, it's not surprising that such crimes don't arouse much interest on the part of law enforcement. As a result there are plenty of large metro areas where an organized auto theft ring could be quite profitable.

mobileed 15y ago

no, the one problem with a criminal business is that once you make a mistake, it's typically a long time (many years in prison) before you get another shot. Non criminals get many do-overs for their mistakes without a waiting period.

m0nastic 15y ago

So, there are artificial constraints to the scalability of an operation like his. For starters, all territory is split up among the different crews who run them. That they do this democratically and unanimously without anyone muscling in on surrounding territory is something I've never quite figured out; but it's been working for forty years. That limitation on potential territory makes you maximize your resources in the geographic areas you control. You get to the point where you know the best neighborhoods for your guys to work based on time-of-day, holidays, local sports schedules, which neighborhoods are composed of people who primarily have others over for the holidays, vs. which neighborhoods primarily go somewhere else to celebrate, etc. So there is a pretty small limit to how large an operation like that gets, but he's able to pay for his house, send his kids all to private school, and ensure they all can go to any college they want. It's a decent "lifestyle business", minus the fact that it's a terrible thing to do to people, and unbelievably dangerous.

dennisgorelik 15y ago
> all territory is split up among the different crews That's probably not that much due to negotiation, but because smarter team tips off police about criminal activity of competing team, and competing team ends up in jail. I would guess that more aggressive team is more likely to end up in jail, which causes natural evolution toward less greedy teams. Still, stealing is a stupid choice for people capable of running efficient organization.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]

sathishmanohar 15y ago

>> The problem with running criminal business is that as soon as he tries to scale, he would inevitably and very seriously piss off lots of people. Why would he want to scale? To launch an IPO? Come on Bro.

dennisgorelik 15y ago
The same reason he launched his criminal business in the first place - to make some easy money.
- sathishmanohar 15y ago
  I don't want to comment on all criminal business. I'm against murder, rape, kidnap and many other crimes. In my opinion prostitution and theft fall in the gray area. Risk-Reward balance in theft is probably the same as in every other risky business. The difference is barrier to entry is so low. That makes all the difference. Alright, I'll just say this, because I don't want to look like a guy who takes moral high-ground on issues. I got my bike stolen, few years before, I was broke at that time, in a job that doesn't pay at all. I was not crazy about the thief at all. My insurance company paid me after a year, which I used to buy my first web server, which led to me starting my web design business. I try not to put material possessions above human beings, I lost my bike. But, I don't want to put the thief in jail, and steal years of his lifetime.
  - dennisgorelik 15y ago
    Do you have better alternative than jail when you are dealing with thieves? I guess 2x loss monetary fine could be a good replacement to jail time for first time thieves.
    - sathishmanohar 15y ago
      IMO starting with "what makes them steal" and fixing it, will deliver better results than, "how do we stop them from stealing anymore".

CamperBob 15y ago

Next step is several years in jail and close monitoring of the future crime activities. The real problem is the ridiculously lax penalties for car theft in many jurisdictions. In the Seattle, WA area, you basically don't even see the inside of a cell until your third or fourth conviction. (One news article I found at http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20020103&slug=cartheft03m0 http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=200... contains a quote to the effect that a thief would have to be caught stealing up to seven cars before being punished with prison time.) Given the lack of interest in auto theft on the part of the legislature, it's not surprising that such crimes don't arouse much interest on the part of law enforcement. As a result there are plenty of large metro areas where an organized auto theft ring could be quite profitable.