6 ms·

Well, most of the measures in most of the European countries were ruled as unconstitutional: locked into our houses not being allowed to get out, curfews after

by mns 4y ago

Well, most of the measures in most of the European countries were ruled as unconstitutional: locked into our houses not being allowed to get out, curfews afterwards at night and so on (and of course all these rules were set in place by politicians that never respected any of them - and worse, a lot of them made money by importing and selling back to the state masks and other PPE equipment). Most of the people, even if they took the vaccines, but dared to say anything about forcing people to get them or commenting on the absurdity of police patrolling parks and stopping any groups of more than 3 people, forcing masks outside in cold weather (not even bothering to read the instructions on the box) were all labelled antivaxxers, corona deniers and right wing nazis. So a lot of people decided to shut up and let the new religion of “I believe in science” do their thing. But next time when a serious pandemic hits, the trust has already been eroded.

Nursie 4y ago
“Unconstitutional” in which countries and by what constitution? I learned that a lot of people think contrarianism makes them smart, and that even if everything everyone was saying about covid was true, they felt it necessary to ‘resist’ purely for the sake of it. I never though that in a pandemic, so many people in so many places would both politicise public health measures and actively side with the virus. But here we are. Trust has indeed been lost, but it might not be where you think.
- bprieto 4y ago
  In Spain the lockdown was deemed unconstitutional by the Tribunal Constitucional, our equivalent of the Supreme Court.
  - Nursie 4y ago
    Interesting, thanks. In the UK there barely is a constitution, and as much as it does exist, it really only governs how the different parts of the government interact with each other, and how they operate. As such 'unconstitutional' isn't really a thing there, which is one of the reasons I asked.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  Indeed, all we had to do was stay put for a bit and yet the virus found humanity actively fighting for its side. Baffling. To put it mildly. And it appears that they are still litigating this. Even more baffling.
  - mns 4y ago
    What are you talking about? A bit? Most of Europe was in a strict lockdown in spring 2020, you weren’t even allowed to leave your home. The lockdowns and curfews continued also in 2021, how much longer should that bit be?
- mns 4y ago
  In Bavaria, Germany the first strict lockdown was considered unlawful and extreme compared to the results and the severity of the situation, in the same time it was found that it violated people’s fundamental rights. Resist what? What contrarianism? Do you think I want to go and kill people to prove I am smart? Or what is your point? Do you think it was fair to lock people in their houses, was it fair not to allow people to go outside and have a walk in the park? Was it normal that the police was out on the streets hunting for people or groups of people? When my mom got cancer again after 2 years of not being able to get any kind of screening (yeah, that’s not possible, I’m just here spreading misinformation, no one died because cancer was mostly ingnored) and we drove back home (in the EU) having 3 negative pcr tests 3 days in a row, we were sent by the police in home isolation and checked by them every day, like some sort of criminals. But I sided with the virus and still went to see her in her last days, being there when she had her last breath. So you can take your politics, your health measures and let me live my life with the little humanity we were still allowed to have. It’s easy to act all superior online with your cushy it jobs, belief in science, having food and packages delivered by those pesky Covid deniers while lecturing others online.
  - Nursie 4y ago
    > most of the measures in most of the European countries were ruled as unconstitutional > In Bavaria, Germany the first strict lockdown was considered unlawful and extreme compared to the results and the severity of the situation These are somewhat different, no? A bit of a different scope from the original claim. One region in Germany made a ruling, not sure that means most European countries ruled most measures unconstitutional. > Resist what? What contrarianism? Resist public health measures, refuse to close their non-essential businesses, refuse to wear masks, spread nonsense about the vaccines containing microchips so Bill Gates can track you, hold rallies where the message was "covid is a hoax", that sort of thing. You know, the stuff we've had endless news stories about in all sorts of countries. > Do you think I want to go and kill people to prove I am smart? You? I have no idea, but clearly there were a lot of people for whom their own self-satisfaction, self aggrandisement, notoriety and even just profit-making was indeed more important than public health. From the short-sighted "masks only stop ill people spreading the diseas and I'm not ill!" to the full on "vaccines kill unborn babies! Buy my supplements!" hucksters. > Do you think it was fair to lock people in their houses, was it fair not to allow people to go outside and have a walk in the park? Was it normal that the police was out on the streets hunting for people or groups of people? Of course it wasn't normal. There was a global pandemic in progress. That's the point, these were extraordinary measures because of an unusual threat. Maybe some (perhaps like in Bavaria) were over the top, but in general the idea was to stop the spread of a deadly disease that's now killed about 7 million. I think the question of whether it was 'fair' to keep people inside is more or less irrelevant. Was it justified, is more interesting. > yeah, that’s not possible, I’m just here spreading misinformation, no one died because cancer was mostly ingnored Lots of people died and will still die because cancer screenings were delayed. In many places this was simply because the healthcare systems were completely overwhelmed with the numbers of covid patients they had to deal with on top of their normal caseloads. I'm really not sure of your point here - are you saying that your mother wouldn't have died , or wouldn't have been waiting so long for diagnosis if there were no anti-covid measures? Because to me it seems that without the anti-covid measures then European healthcare systems would have been even more screwed for longer than they already were, as even higher covid caseloads dominated. Unfortunately this is a known consequence in the UK as well, many routine tests and operations postponed as the NHS struggled to keep up. I'm sorry your mother passed away, that must have been a painful thing to go through, especially with the state of the world at that time. FWIW I would likely have disregarded rules that tried to stop me being with my mother at such a time as well.

by mns 4y ago

Nursie 4y ago

“Unconstitutional” in which countries and by what constitution? I learned that a lot of people think contrarianism makes them smart, and that even if everything everyone was saying about covid was true, they felt it necessary to ‘resist’ purely for the sake of it. I never though that in a pandemic, so many people in so many places would both politicise public health measures and actively side with the virus. But here we are. Trust has indeed been lost, but it might not be where you think.

bprieto 4y ago
In Spain the lockdown was deemed unconstitutional by the Tribunal Constitucional, our equivalent of the Supreme Court.
- Nursie 4y ago
  Interesting, thanks. In the UK there barely is a constitution, and as much as it does exist, it really only governs how the different parts of the government interact with each other, and how they operate. As such 'unconstitutional' isn't really a thing there, which is one of the reasons I asked.
jacquesm 4y ago
Indeed, all we had to do was stay put for a bit and yet the virus found humanity actively fighting for its side. Baffling. To put it mildly. And it appears that they are still litigating this. Even more baffling.
- mns 4y ago
  What are you talking about? A bit? Most of Europe was in a strict lockdown in spring 2020, you weren’t even allowed to leave your home. The lockdowns and curfews continued also in 2021, how much longer should that bit be?
mns 4y ago
In Bavaria, Germany the first strict lockdown was considered unlawful and extreme compared to the results and the severity of the situation, in the same time it was found that it violated people’s fundamental rights. Resist what? What contrarianism? Do you think I want to go and kill people to prove I am smart? Or what is your point? Do you think it was fair to lock people in their houses, was it fair not to allow people to go outside and have a walk in the park? Was it normal that the police was out on the streets hunting for people or groups of people? When my mom got cancer again after 2 years of not being able to get any kind of screening (yeah, that’s not possible, I’m just here spreading misinformation, no one died because cancer was mostly ingnored) and we drove back home (in the EU) having 3 negative pcr tests 3 days in a row, we were sent by the police in home isolation and checked by them every day, like some sort of criminals. But I sided with the virus and still went to see her in her last days, being there when she had her last breath. So you can take your politics, your health measures and let me live my life with the little humanity we were still allowed to have. It’s easy to act all superior online with your cushy it jobs, belief in science, having food and packages delivered by those pesky Covid deniers while lecturing others online.
- Nursie 4y ago
  > most of the measures in most of the European countries were ruled as unconstitutional > In Bavaria, Germany the first strict lockdown was considered unlawful and extreme compared to the results and the severity of the situation These are somewhat different, no? A bit of a different scope from the original claim. One region in Germany made a ruling, not sure that means most European countries ruled most measures unconstitutional. > Resist what? What contrarianism? Resist public health measures, refuse to close their non-essential businesses, refuse to wear masks, spread nonsense about the vaccines containing microchips so Bill Gates can track you, hold rallies where the message was "covid is a hoax", that sort of thing. You know, the stuff we've had endless news stories about in all sorts of countries. > Do you think I want to go and kill people to prove I am smart? You? I have no idea, but clearly there were a lot of people for whom their own self-satisfaction, self aggrandisement, notoriety and even just profit-making was indeed more important than public health. From the short-sighted "masks only stop ill people spreading the diseas and I'm not ill!" to the full on "vaccines kill unborn babies! Buy my supplements!" hucksters. > Do you think it was fair to lock people in their houses, was it fair not to allow people to go outside and have a walk in the park? Was it normal that the police was out on the streets hunting for people or groups of people? Of course it wasn't normal. There was a global pandemic in progress. That's the point, these were extraordinary measures because of an unusual threat. Maybe some (perhaps like in Bavaria) were over the top, but in general the idea was to stop the spread of a deadly disease that's now killed about 7 million. I think the question of whether it was 'fair' to keep people inside is more or less irrelevant. Was it justified, is more interesting. > yeah, that’s not possible, I’m just here spreading misinformation, no one died because cancer was mostly ingnored Lots of people died and will still die because cancer screenings were delayed. In many places this was simply because the healthcare systems were completely overwhelmed with the numbers of covid patients they had to deal with on top of their normal caseloads. I'm really not sure of your point here - are you saying that your mother wouldn't have died , or wouldn't have been waiting so long for diagnosis if there were no anti-covid measures? Because to me it seems that without the anti-covid measures then European healthcare systems would have been even more screwed for longer than they already were, as even higher covid caseloads dominated. Unfortunately this is a known consequence in the UK as well, many routine tests and operations postponed as the NHS struggled to keep up. I'm sorry your mother passed away, that must have been a painful thing to go through, especially with the state of the world at that time. FWIW I would likely have disregarded rules that tried to stop me being with my mother at such a time as well.