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Why is that a problem, and if it was due to upbringing then why that would be a problem? > I'd like to see the same study done on the little left hunter-gather

Why is that a problem, and if it was due to upbringing then why that would be a problem? > I'd like to see the same study done on the little left hunter-gatherers bands. I don't see what that would prove. Men being biologically better suited for many types of primitive hunting, and women having the responsibility of pregnancy and nursing infants, would have a massive influence on the culture and structure of those societies.

defrost 4y ago
So .. you've had no actual experience of living with hunter gathers then? The women do a lot of work digging ants [1], digging lizards, trawling through sands for cockles [2] (and leaving massive midden piles in their wake over centuries), and retire to a life of painting and laughing at the quaint notions of the clueless. Many such cultures share childcare across a wide network of extended kinship [3], both male and female - everybody works to bring food, tools, and culture to the group. [1] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-16/honey-ant-hunters-and-aboriginal-culture-keepers-head-bush/7514170 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-16/honey-ant-hunters-and... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegillarca_granosa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegillarca_granosa [3] https://aifs.gov.au/resources/policy-and-practice-papers/strengths-australian-aboriginal-cultural-practices-family-life https://aifs.gov.au/resources/policy-and-practice-papers/str...
- throwawaylinux 4y ago
  > So .. you've had no actual experience of living with hunter gathers then? This is not an argument. > The women do a lot of work digging ants [1], digging lizards, trawling through sands for cockles [2] (and leaving massive midden piles in their wake over centuries), and retire to a life of painting and laughing at the quaint notions of the clueless. Great. > Many such cultures share childcare across a wide network of extended kinship [3], both male and female - everybody works to bring food, tools, and culture to the group. And yet despite having nary a biology degree among them, even they will tell you that men can not gestate or nurse a child. And that men are biologically more suited to some types of primitive hunting.
  - ehnto 4y ago
    Those are just two points out of a long list of actions required in a society. I don't think it really adds that much weight to the argument, even though it is true. To go back to your other comment: > Why is that a problem, and if it was due to upbringing then why that would be a problem? It would be a problem for upbringing as that is something adults have agency over. It's a bias that may not need to exist. A great example of that is when women were highly represented in computer science as it was initially becoming a field of study, but later got pushed out by boys who'd had technical skills nurtured in them when they were young while the girls did not. Oversimplifying that a little bit, but most of us have experienced it or seen it in action. Women in STEM is a supply issue that starts with parenting, and continues all the way along the pipeline, with schools, universities and peers all filtering girls out of the pipeline that puts butts in seats in tech roles, even though they're perfectly capable of the roles.
    - realjhol 4y ago
      > It would be a problem for upbringing as that is something adults have agency over. It's a bias that may not need to exist. There's no evidence that adults are creating this bias. They are not. On average women find tech work grindingly boring. Why is it a problem? It isn't. Just let people do what they want with their lives.
      - ehnto 4y ago
        > On average women find tech work grindingly boring. No evidence of that. > There's no evidence that adults are creating this bias. They are not. Are you absolutely certain? It's the subject of quite a bit of research. > Why is it a problem? It isn't. Just let people do what they want with their lives. Kids don't know what they want to do with their lives, they get lead down various paths by their upbringing. Plenty of people end up in careers they don't like because it's what their parents wanted them to do, regardless of gender.
        realjhol 4y ago

defrost 4y ago

So .. you've had no actual experience of living with hunter gathers then? The women do a lot of work digging ants [1], digging lizards, trawling through sands for cockles [2] (and leaving massive midden piles in their wake over centuries), and retire to a life of painting and laughing at the quaint notions of the clueless. Many such cultures share childcare across a wide network of extended kinship [3], both male and female - everybody works to bring food, tools, and culture to the group. [1] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-16/honey-ant-hunters-and-aboriginal-culture-keepers-head-bush/7514170 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-16/honey-ant-hunters-and... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegillarca_granosa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegillarca_granosa [3] https://aifs.gov.au/resources/policy-and-practice-papers/strengths-australian-aboriginal-cultural-practices-family-life https://aifs.gov.au/resources/policy-and-practice-papers/str...

throwawaylinux 4y ago
> So .. you've had no actual experience of living with hunter gathers then? This is not an argument. > The women do a lot of work digging ants [1], digging lizards, trawling through sands for cockles [2] (and leaving massive midden piles in their wake over centuries), and retire to a life of painting and laughing at the quaint notions of the clueless. Great. > Many such cultures share childcare across a wide network of extended kinship [3], both male and female - everybody works to bring food, tools, and culture to the group. And yet despite having nary a biology degree among them, even they will tell you that men can not gestate or nurse a child. And that men are biologically more suited to some types of primitive hunting.
- ehnto 4y ago
  Those are just two points out of a long list of actions required in a society. I don't think it really adds that much weight to the argument, even though it is true. To go back to your other comment: > Why is that a problem, and if it was due to upbringing then why that would be a problem? It would be a problem for upbringing as that is something adults have agency over. It's a bias that may not need to exist. A great example of that is when women were highly represented in computer science as it was initially becoming a field of study, but later got pushed out by boys who'd had technical skills nurtured in them when they were young while the girls did not. Oversimplifying that a little bit, but most of us have experienced it or seen it in action. Women in STEM is a supply issue that starts with parenting, and continues all the way along the pipeline, with schools, universities and peers all filtering girls out of the pipeline that puts butts in seats in tech roles, even though they're perfectly capable of the roles.
  - realjhol 4y ago
    > It would be a problem for upbringing as that is something adults have agency over. It's a bias that may not need to exist. There's no evidence that adults are creating this bias. They are not. On average women find tech work grindingly boring. Why is it a problem? It isn't. Just let people do what they want with their lives.
    - ehnto 4y ago
      > On average women find tech work grindingly boring. No evidence of that. > There's no evidence that adults are creating this bias. They are not. Are you absolutely certain? It's the subject of quite a bit of research. > Why is it a problem? It isn't. Just let people do what they want with their lives. Kids don't know what they want to do with their lives, they get lead down various paths by their upbringing. Plenty of people end up in careers they don't like because it's what their parents wanted them to do, regardless of gender.
      - realjhol 4y ago