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That's sad to hear, but I think he's right to realize that it's going to be really hard to deal with losses when the auto theft community gets wind of their bus

That's sad to hear, but I think he's right to realize that it's going to be really hard to deal with losses when the auto theft community gets wind of their business. I am always amazed by the efficiency and technological prowess that the kids I grew up with who steal cars apply to their trade (even if I wish they were involved in a better trade). One kid I grew up with now has a ring of six guys working for him, paying good benefits and matching retirement accounts, where all they do are steal Honda Civics. Just that model. I swear he's implemented Kaizen into his workflow.

smhinsey 15y ago
Are you joking about the matching contributions to a retirement account part? If not I would be really curious to see how that works in that context. Not that I'm expecting a textbook on the subject or anything.
- m0nastic 15y ago
  No, I'm dead serious. Colin (the aforementioned kid I grew up with) figured it was easier to attract good talent and keep them happy if he treated his operation like a professional job. So, he employs his team through an auto-repair shop, where they're full-time employees with full benefits and he sets them up with a 401k (that he matches up to some percentage of, I don't know the number). That's pretty much unheard of among actual mechanics, never mind car thieves. And he gets to cherry-pick his team, and they like the stability and "legitimate"-ness of the operation. He's been doing it for a while, so his numbers must make it a good decision financially (he has elaborate spreadsheets of every facet of his business). The most "boss" I ever got to look to impress a girl was in college when a friend of mine went out to Boston on a Friday and ended up at the end of the night having her car stolen. She calls me all upset, and I think, "Maybe I can see if Colin can get her car back." So I call her an hour later and let her know that if she goes to a specific T-station parking lot, her car will be there. She calls me later and lets me know that, it is, indeed there, and there's a case of beer in the passenger seat with a note saying "Sorry". Nerdy, adolescent me felt like a puffer fish that had puffed itself up.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - dennisgorelik 15y ago
    If you know about Colin, then probably some other people know about him too. So when his business would start to scale (greed is inevitable) and would cause serious problems to society, somebody would sell Colin out. 401k's of mechanics could be used to pay off victim's compensation (so the mechanics could stay out of jail).
dennisgorelik 15y ago
The problem with running criminal business is that as soon as he tries to scale, he would inevitably and very seriously piss off lots of people. That would put extra pressure on law enforcement to catch the thieves and they would eventually be caught. Next step is several years in jail and close monitoring of the future crime activities. End result - the only expertise that he would gain over the years (in stealing) would be not marketable.
- mobileed 15y ago
  no, the one problem with a criminal business is that once you make a mistake, it's typically a long time (many years in prison) before you get another shot. Non criminals get many do-overs for their mistakes without a waiting period.
- m0nastic 15y ago
  So, there are artificial constraints to the scalability of an operation like his. For starters, all territory is split up among the different crews who run them. That they do this democratically and unanimously without anyone muscling in on surrounding territory is something I've never quite figured out; but it's been working for forty years. That limitation on potential territory makes you maximize your resources in the geographic areas you control. You get to the point where you know the best neighborhoods for your guys to work based on time-of-day, holidays, local sports schedules, which neighborhoods are composed of people who primarily have others over for the holidays, vs. which neighborhoods primarily go somewhere else to celebrate, etc. So there is a pretty small limit to how large an operation like that gets, but he's able to pay for his house, send his kids all to private school, and ensure they all can go to any college they want. It's a decent "lifestyle business", minus the fact that it's a terrible thing to do to people, and unbelievably dangerous.
  - dennisgorelik 15y ago
    > all territory is split up among the different crews That's probably not that much due to negotiation, but because smarter team tips off police about criminal activity of competing team, and competing team ends up in jail. I would guess that more aggressive team is more likely to end up in jail, which causes natural evolution toward less greedy teams. Still, stealing is a stupid choice for people capable of running efficient organization.
kinkora 15y ago
I apologise for being a lil off topic but I do have a question for you. Before I ask that question, let me tell you a story. When I was growing up, I knew this girl who works part time at a cinema. Her job is basically to clean up the place after everyone has left once the movie has ended. While cleaning up the place, 7 out of 10 times, she will find something someone has left behind and out of that 7 times, probably 2 items will be valuable (wallet, mobile phones, jewellery, etc). Instead of returning it to their respective owners, she ALWAYS pocket anything that is valuable with the excuse of finders keepers. When I found out about what she does, I had a moral dilemma. I knew she probably did it because she (to make a long story short), had a very unfortunate and underprivileged life so she just found a quick and easy (albeit illegal) way to supplement her pay. Yet at the same time, I knew what she was doing was wrong and I contemplated telling the authorities about her but couldn't bring myself to do it because she trusted me enough (i've always helped her in dire times) to tell me about it. Now, here is my question. Do you ever feel that you should report your friend knowing he is breaking the law? Do you find yourself in a moral dilemma knowing that you know a person committing a crime but you have not (i assumed) turn him in?
- m0nastic 15y ago
  So, where I grew up, everybody was a criminal. I don't mean that hyperbolically either. Everyone in my family (mostly bottom-of-the-barrel criminals, but a few actual bad-ass criminals), every other kid who lived in my neighborhood. All criminals. My older brother ran away from home when he was 15, partially to get away from all of that. I stayed until I was 17, but left for much the same reason. If I felt obliged to report everyone in my history who has broken the law (or made it a habit of breaking the law), I would have quite possibly spent thousands of dollars on phone calls to the police. I removed myself from the moral dilemma by going far away from all of that and not going back. I've been a boring nerd for the past twelve years.
  - sounds 15y ago
    Sadly, such a situation is not unique. Kudos for being open about it. Kudos as well for being able, and having the balls to make the exit. I'm speaking from a background of gangs, where there is no exit. Except a coffin.
nostromo 15y ago
Not to be overly prudish, but as someone that has had a car stolen -- not recently, but when I was right out of high school, completely broke and using it to get to work (where there wasn't any public transportation option) -- I'd really encourage you to turn in your friend. You may think it's not your problem, but you're complicit in those crimes and acting very unethically.
- chrischen 15y ago
  I can see how it can be a difficult situation for him to turn in his friend, but it's only because he's detached from the situation. m0nastic: Just think of the people who have their cars stolen, and tell yourself that every time they steal a car and you don't turn him in then you've essentially helped screw that person over. That person could be someone just like nostromo. Imagine young nostromo, coming to you for help. What would you do? Who would you side with? Every time they steal a car it's the same situation, except the victim may not personally know you so they won't come asking you for help.
- vaksel 15y ago
  I had one of my old cars semi-stolen. Luckily I took a few precautions and had a hidden fuel pump kill switch wired up(since the Integra was a very high target for thieves). So they only got 20 feet away before the car died on them. Wiring one up is real easy, takes like 20 minutes, all you have to do is pull the rear seats out, cut the wire and extend the wire to the switch.
sathishmanohar 15y ago
Its ok... Thats why god gave us car insurance..
alanfalcon 15y ago
The 1995 Honda Civic is the most stolen car in America. At least, it topped the list when I last looked into it as a result of my brother in law having his 1995 Honda Civic stolen from the third floor of a casino parking garage in Las Vegas. This was on Christmas, and his car was full of the presents that he and his family had received that year. They were covered with a blanket and it's unlikely that the thieves knew what they were getting, but they got quite the "bonus" from that job. We watched the security camera footage as the thieves walked up to the car and got into it and drove off within 60 seconds. The thieves were not caught and the shell of the car was found a week later abandoned on the side of a road. There was a lesson for my brother in law to not load his presents into his car until he's actually going out the door to begin his eight hour drive back to Reno, but it was a very expensive and very heartbreaking lesson to learn. Please, if anyone knows someone who is willing to do this to another human being, make it stop. You have the power to prevent a loved one's Christmas from becoming a nightmare, use it. Please?
- gonzo 15y ago
  It doesn't take 8 hours to drive from Vegas to Reno. I had my brother's Tahoe stolen out of a hotel parking lot in Vegas. (I bought him a new truck.)
  - alanfalcon 15y ago
    Eight hours, five minutes accordibg to Google Maps. Of course when my brother-in-law drives it turns into a nine hour drive, and my sister-in-law finishes in seven hours, but then her speedometer doesn't work.
sliverstorm 15y ago
Do you actually need tech? I have locked myself out of several cars. It rarely takes me more than a few minutes to get back in, even if the best tool I've got is a tree branch.

smhinsey 15y ago

Are you joking about the matching contributions to a retirement account part? If not I would be really curious to see how that works in that context. Not that I'm expecting a textbook on the subject or anything.

m0nastic 15y ago
No, I'm dead serious. Colin (the aforementioned kid I grew up with) figured it was easier to attract good talent and keep them happy if he treated his operation like a professional job. So, he employs his team through an auto-repair shop, where they're full-time employees with full benefits and he sets them up with a 401k (that he matches up to some percentage of, I don't know the number). That's pretty much unheard of among actual mechanics, never mind car thieves. And he gets to cherry-pick his team, and they like the stability and "legitimate"-ness of the operation. He's been doing it for a while, so his numbers must make it a good decision financially (he has elaborate spreadsheets of every facet of his business). The most "boss" I ever got to look to impress a girl was in college when a friend of mine went out to Boston on a Friday and ended up at the end of the night having her car stolen. She calls me all upset, and I think, "Maybe I can see if Colin can get her car back." So I call her an hour later and let her know that if she goes to a specific T-station parking lot, her car will be there. She calls me later and lets me know that, it is, indeed there, and there's a case of beer in the passenger seat with a note saying "Sorry". Nerdy, adolescent me felt like a puffer fish that had puffed itself up.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- dennisgorelik 15y ago
  If you know about Colin, then probably some other people know about him too. So when his business would start to scale (greed is inevitable) and would cause serious problems to society, somebody would sell Colin out. 401k's of mechanics could be used to pay off victim's compensation (so the mechanics could stay out of jail).

dennisgorelik 15y ago

The problem with running criminal business is that as soon as he tries to scale, he would inevitably and very seriously piss off lots of people. That would put extra pressure on law enforcement to catch the thieves and they would eventually be caught. Next step is several years in jail and close monitoring of the future crime activities. End result - the only expertise that he would gain over the years (in stealing) would be not marketable.

mobileed 15y ago
no, the one problem with a criminal business is that once you make a mistake, it's typically a long time (many years in prison) before you get another shot. Non criminals get many do-overs for their mistakes without a waiting period.
m0nastic 15y ago
So, there are artificial constraints to the scalability of an operation like his. For starters, all territory is split up among the different crews who run them. That they do this democratically and unanimously without anyone muscling in on surrounding territory is something I've never quite figured out; but it's been working for forty years. That limitation on potential territory makes you maximize your resources in the geographic areas you control. You get to the point where you know the best neighborhoods for your guys to work based on time-of-day, holidays, local sports schedules, which neighborhoods are composed of people who primarily have others over for the holidays, vs. which neighborhoods primarily go somewhere else to celebrate, etc. So there is a pretty small limit to how large an operation like that gets, but he's able to pay for his house, send his kids all to private school, and ensure they all can go to any college they want. It's a decent "lifestyle business", minus the fact that it's a terrible thing to do to people, and unbelievably dangerous.
- dennisgorelik 15y ago
  > all territory is split up among the different crews That's probably not that much due to negotiation, but because smarter team tips off police about criminal activity of competing team, and competing team ends up in jail. I would guess that more aggressive team is more likely to end up in jail, which causes natural evolution toward less greedy teams. Still, stealing is a stupid choice for people capable of running efficient organization.

kinkora 15y ago

I apologise for being a lil off topic but I do have a question for you. Before I ask that question, let me tell you a story. When I was growing up, I knew this girl who works part time at a cinema. Her job is basically to clean up the place after everyone has left once the movie has ended. While cleaning up the place, 7 out of 10 times, she will find something someone has left behind and out of that 7 times, probably 2 items will be valuable (wallet, mobile phones, jewellery, etc). Instead of returning it to their respective owners, she ALWAYS pocket anything that is valuable with the excuse of finders keepers. When I found out about what she does, I had a moral dilemma. I knew she probably did it because she (to make a long story short), had a very unfortunate and underprivileged life so she just found a quick and easy (albeit illegal) way to supplement her pay. Yet at the same time, I knew what she was doing was wrong and I contemplated telling the authorities about her but couldn't bring myself to do it because she trusted me enough (i've always helped her in dire times) to tell me about it. Now, here is my question. Do you ever feel that you should report your friend knowing he is breaking the law? Do you find yourself in a moral dilemma knowing that you know a person committing a crime but you have not (i assumed) turn him in?

m0nastic 15y ago
So, where I grew up, everybody was a criminal. I don't mean that hyperbolically either. Everyone in my family (mostly bottom-of-the-barrel criminals, but a few actual bad-ass criminals), every other kid who lived in my neighborhood. All criminals. My older brother ran away from home when he was 15, partially to get away from all of that. I stayed until I was 17, but left for much the same reason. If I felt obliged to report everyone in my history who has broken the law (or made it a habit of breaking the law), I would have quite possibly spent thousands of dollars on phone calls to the police. I removed myself from the moral dilemma by going far away from all of that and not going back. I've been a boring nerd for the past twelve years.
- sounds 15y ago
  Sadly, such a situation is not unique. Kudos for being open about it. Kudos as well for being able, and having the balls to make the exit. I'm speaking from a background of gangs, where there is no exit. Except a coffin.

nostromo 15y ago

Not to be overly prudish, but as someone that has had a car stolen -- not recently, but when I was right out of high school, completely broke and using it to get to work (where there wasn't any public transportation option) -- I'd really encourage you to turn in your friend. You may think it's not your problem, but you're complicit in those crimes and acting very unethically.

chrischen 15y ago
I can see how it can be a difficult situation for him to turn in his friend, but it's only because he's detached from the situation. m0nastic: Just think of the people who have their cars stolen, and tell yourself that every time they steal a car and you don't turn him in then you've essentially helped screw that person over. That person could be someone just like nostromo. Imagine young nostromo, coming to you for help. What would you do? Who would you side with? Every time they steal a car it's the same situation, except the victim may not personally know you so they won't come asking you for help.
vaksel 15y ago
I had one of my old cars semi-stolen. Luckily I took a few precautions and had a hidden fuel pump kill switch wired up(since the Integra was a very high target for thieves). So they only got 20 feet away before the car died on them. Wiring one up is real easy, takes like 20 minutes, all you have to do is pull the rear seats out, cut the wire and extend the wire to the switch.

sathishmanohar 15y ago

Its ok... Thats why god gave us car insurance..

alanfalcon 15y ago

The 1995 Honda Civic is the most stolen car in America. At least, it topped the list when I last looked into it as a result of my brother in law having his 1995 Honda Civic stolen from the third floor of a casino parking garage in Las Vegas. This was on Christmas, and his car was full of the presents that he and his family had received that year. They were covered with a blanket and it's unlikely that the thieves knew what they were getting, but they got quite the "bonus" from that job. We watched the security camera footage as the thieves walked up to the car and got into it and drove off within 60 seconds. The thieves were not caught and the shell of the car was found a week later abandoned on the side of a road. There was a lesson for my brother in law to not load his presents into his car until he's actually going out the door to begin his eight hour drive back to Reno, but it was a very expensive and very heartbreaking lesson to learn. Please, if anyone knows someone who is willing to do this to another human being, make it stop. You have the power to prevent a loved one's Christmas from becoming a nightmare, use it. Please?

gonzo 15y ago
It doesn't take 8 hours to drive from Vegas to Reno. I had my brother's Tahoe stolen out of a hotel parking lot in Vegas. (I bought him a new truck.)
- alanfalcon 15y ago
  Eight hours, five minutes accordibg to Google Maps. Of course when my brother-in-law drives it turns into a nine hour drive, and my sister-in-law finishes in seven hours, but then her speedometer doesn't work.

sliverstorm 15y ago

Do you actually need tech? I have locked myself out of several cars. It rarely takes me more than a few minutes to get back in, even if the best tool I've got is a tree branch.