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There's an unsubstantiated rumor that 120 Southwest ramp agents walked off the job at Denver International Airport after the VP of operations out of Dallas sent

There's an unsubstantiated rumor that 120 Southwest ramp agents walked off the job at Denver International Airport after the VP of operations out of Dallas sent a demanding (and possibly unreasonable) memo to the Denver staff banning sick time without a doctors note and requiring mandatory overtime. https://twitter.com/AtSouthwest/status/1606543397996855296 https://twitter.com/AtSouthwest/status/1606543397996855296 If true, it could account for a majority of SW's cancellations over the past few days and it could continue for the foreseeable future.

miguelazo 4y ago
I wouldn’t doubt this, although a friend stuck at Denver yesterday told me he ran into a Southwest employee who couldn’t figure out where he was supposed to be for hours. WSJ mentioned it could be due to their call-in scheduling system being totally overwhelmed.
- yellow_lead 4y ago
  It's crazy that airlines can't keep their internal tools working.
  - mathattack 4y ago
    Underinvestment. Part due to a lack of demand the past 3 years, part due to a race to the bottom on pricing and quality that predates the pandemic.
    - yellow_lead 4y ago
      We've heard a lot of stories about scheduling systems getting overwhelmed at airlines in the past few years. I wonder if any airlines are making a push to modernize them. Or is the business so low margin that they can't afford it?
      - danaris 4y ago
        "So low margin" that they spent years doing major stock buybacks...
        mathattack 4y ago
        From the shareholders perspective that may be better than trying a modernization that they can’t pull off.
        danaris 4y ago
        I think the shareholders' perspective has been vastly overprioritized in recent decades, and it needs to take a back seat to the company's long-term health perspective, customers' perspective, the workers' perspective, and the overall health of the society's perspective.
      - mathattack 4y ago
        It’s hard and costly to modernize. Look how many companies can’t pull off an ERP upgrade in a good market, let alone such a cyclical one.
  - rasz 4y ago
    IT as a cost center
cokeandpepsi 4y ago
Yep, I'm never flying southwest again
- jsf01 4y ago
  Understandable but on the flip side, the backlash from this may result in them being one of the best airlines to fly in the near future.
  - mox1 4y ago
    Or you know fly the ones that pay their people well and don't have issues like this to start with (cough * delta * cough)
m-ee 4y ago
I don’t know about majority. Looking at pilot forums their scheduling system seems to be in complete disarray. Hours long wait times to get through on the phone, no awareness of where crews are even located.
- symlinkk 4y ago
  What forums?
ars 4y ago
You have cause and effect backwards. That memo appears to be issued as a result of all the flight problems. And it says it's a temporary emergency policy due to the current trouble they are having.
- tareqak 4y ago
  The memo is dated December 21, 2022 and today is December 27, 2022. I don’t remember if the North American winter storms started before December 21, on that day, or after.
  - ars 4y ago
    It started on the day the memo was written: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_December_2022_North_American_winter_storm https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_December_2022_North_Ame...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- m348e912 4y ago
  Here's what I think happened. Storm happens, Southwest demands all hands on deck with stipulations outlined in that memo, staff gets upset and walk off making the situation worse. The only evidence I have is that Southwest seems to be uniquely impacted by the storm
AdmiralAsshat 4y ago
Currently at another airport waiting to fly into DFW, and this is the current word among the airport crew as well: that Southwest is uniquely impacted right now because a bunch of the Southwest staff at Dallas just quit.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  Oh that sucks. How is the weather there, is the distance such that you can rent a car or have some other means of transportation? Not a good time of the year to be stuck.
akiselev 4y ago
> after the VP of operations out of Dallas sent a demanding (and possibly unreasonable) memo to the Denver staff banning sick time without a doctors note and requiring mandatory overtime IANAL but that’s not just unreasonable, it’s downright illegal according to Colorado labor laws. Southwest can only ask their employees for a doctor’s note after four consecutive days of absence and that’s according to a post-COVID law. I’m not sure about the mandatory overtime but that’s probably governed by a union contract (4/5ths of SW is unionized). Evidence shows that this ~moron~ VP didn’t know the specifics of the former so he probably fucked up the latter too. I’m guessing Denver employees aren’t the only ones to walk out. Union solidarity, baby!
- Semaphor 4y ago
  > it’s downright illegal according to Colorado labor laws. Interesting, that's the first time I hear of a US law being better for employee protection than here in Germany. Do they have limited sick days? That could explain it, as they are obviously unlimited here, but doctor's notes are commonly required after 0-1 days.
  - deaddodo 4y ago
    It's not a US law, it's a state law. And there are plenty of laws throughout the union that are "better" (more favorable to the employee) than in various places in the EU. California, for instance, has pretty strict employee/tenant protections; along with Oregon, New York, etc. There are also others that are substantially worse (Mississippi, Alabama, etc). You can't compare US Federal law to German Federal law (in these cases), as the Federal government is significantly and substantively hands off to labor concerns (beyond the bare minimum). You would have to compare specific state statutes to Bundesrat+Bundesland statutes.
    - Semaphor 4y ago
      I meant "the first time I hear" quite literally, I know there are state laws and those can be quite different, I just had never heard of a specific law regarding employee protection that actually was better for employees
rhcom2 4y ago
Looks like confirmed true by Southwest PR. https://kdvr.com/news/local/southwest-airlines-declares-a-state-of-operational-emergency-at-den/ https://kdvr.com/news/local/southwest-airlines-declares-a-st...
- variant 4y ago
  Not quite. The emergency procedures were likely put in place due to crew resourcing issues that were fallout from the storms. These procedures require more stringent review of sick requests to ensure all hands are on deck and are probably allowed by negotiated union contracts. I'm skeptical of this walkout rumor.
amluto 4y ago
Oof. At the very least, any employer requiring a doctor’s note should pay for it. Getting in to see a doctor on short notice can be difficult and expensive.
- hotpotamus 4y ago
  I have a friend who's worked a series of crappy jobs that don't have health insurance and asks for doctor's notes when he's sick. So he provides doctor's notes by just printing them out himself.

miguelazo 4y ago

I wouldn’t doubt this, although a friend stuck at Denver yesterday told me he ran into a Southwest employee who couldn’t figure out where he was supposed to be for hours. WSJ mentioned it could be due to their call-in scheduling system being totally overwhelmed.

yellow_lead 4y ago
It's crazy that airlines can't keep their internal tools working.
- mathattack 4y ago
  Underinvestment. Part due to a lack of demand the past 3 years, part due to a race to the bottom on pricing and quality that predates the pandemic.
  - yellow_lead 4y ago
    We've heard a lot of stories about scheduling systems getting overwhelmed at airlines in the past few years. I wonder if any airlines are making a push to modernize them. Or is the business so low margin that they can't afford it?
    - danaris 4y ago
      "So low margin" that they spent years doing major stock buybacks...
      - mathattack 4y ago
        From the shareholders perspective that may be better than trying a modernization that they can’t pull off.
        danaris 4y ago
        I think the shareholders' perspective has been vastly overprioritized in recent decades, and it needs to take a back seat to the company's long-term health perspective, customers' perspective, the workers' perspective, and the overall health of the society's perspective.
    - mathattack 4y ago
      It’s hard and costly to modernize. Look how many companies can’t pull off an ERP upgrade in a good market, let alone such a cyclical one.
- rasz 4y ago
  IT as a cost center

cokeandpepsi 4y ago

Yep, I'm never flying southwest again

jsf01 4y ago
Understandable but on the flip side, the backlash from this may result in them being one of the best airlines to fly in the near future.
- mox1 4y ago
  Or you know fly the ones that pay their people well and don't have issues like this to start with (cough * delta * cough)

m-ee 4y ago

I don’t know about majority. Looking at pilot forums their scheduling system seems to be in complete disarray. Hours long wait times to get through on the phone, no awareness of where crews are even located.

symlinkk 4y ago
What forums?

ars 4y ago

You have cause and effect backwards. That memo appears to be issued as a result of all the flight problems. And it says it's a temporary emergency policy due to the current trouble they are having.

tareqak 4y ago
The memo is dated December 21, 2022 and today is December 27, 2022. I don’t remember if the North American winter storms started before December 21, on that day, or after.
- ars 4y ago
  It started on the day the memo was written: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_December_2022_North_American_winter_storm https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_December_2022_North_Ame...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
m348e912 4y ago
Here's what I think happened. Storm happens, Southwest demands all hands on deck with stipulations outlined in that memo, staff gets upset and walk off making the situation worse. The only evidence I have is that Southwest seems to be uniquely impacted by the storm

AdmiralAsshat 4y ago

Currently at another airport waiting to fly into DFW, and this is the current word among the airport crew as well: that Southwest is uniquely impacted right now because a bunch of the Southwest staff at Dallas just quit.

jacquesm 4y ago
Oh that sucks. How is the weather there, is the distance such that you can rent a car or have some other means of transportation? Not a good time of the year to be stuck.

akiselev 4y ago

> after the VP of operations out of Dallas sent a demanding (and possibly unreasonable) memo to the Denver staff banning sick time without a doctors note and requiring mandatory overtime IANAL but that’s not just unreasonable, it’s downright illegal according to Colorado labor laws. Southwest can only ask their employees for a doctor’s note after four consecutive days of absence and that’s according to a post-COVID law. I’m not sure about the mandatory overtime but that’s probably governed by a union contract (4/5ths of SW is unionized). Evidence shows that this ~moron~ VP didn’t know the specifics of the former so he probably fucked up the latter too. I’m guessing Denver employees aren’t the only ones to walk out. Union solidarity, baby!

Semaphor 4y ago
> it’s downright illegal according to Colorado labor laws. Interesting, that's the first time I hear of a US law being better for employee protection than here in Germany. Do they have limited sick days? That could explain it, as they are obviously unlimited here, but doctor's notes are commonly required after 0-1 days.
- deaddodo 4y ago
  It's not a US law, it's a state law. And there are plenty of laws throughout the union that are "better" (more favorable to the employee) than in various places in the EU. California, for instance, has pretty strict employee/tenant protections; along with Oregon, New York, etc. There are also others that are substantially worse (Mississippi, Alabama, etc). You can't compare US Federal law to German Federal law (in these cases), as the Federal government is significantly and substantively hands off to labor concerns (beyond the bare minimum). You would have to compare specific state statutes to Bundesrat+Bundesland statutes.
  - Semaphor 4y ago
    I meant "the first time I hear" quite literally, I know there are state laws and those can be quite different, I just had never heard of a specific law regarding employee protection that actually was better for employees

rhcom2 4y ago

Looks like confirmed true by Southwest PR. https://kdvr.com/news/local/southwest-airlines-declares-a-state-of-operational-emergency-at-den/ https://kdvr.com/news/local/southwest-airlines-declares-a-st...

variant 4y ago
Not quite. The emergency procedures were likely put in place due to crew resourcing issues that were fallout from the storms. These procedures require more stringent review of sick requests to ensure all hands are on deck and are probably allowed by negotiated union contracts. I'm skeptical of this walkout rumor.

amluto 4y ago

Oof. At the very least, any employer requiring a doctor’s note should pay for it. Getting in to see a doctor on short notice can be difficult and expensive.

hotpotamus 4y ago
I have a friend who's worked a series of crappy jobs that don't have health insurance and asks for doctor's notes when he's sick. So he provides doctor's notes by just printing them out himself.