4 ms·

"66% percent thought it was a silly idea" does not mean that 33% saw it as "reflecting reality". The 33% thought it was a sincere reflection of the patriotism o

by akerl_ 4y ago

"66% percent thought it was a silly idea" does not mean that 33% saw it as "reflecting reality". The 33% thought it was a sincere reflection of the patriotism of the people saying "freedom fries". The poll in question: https://news.gallup.com/poll/8032/majority-americans-view-france-ally-friend.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/8032/majority-americans-view-fr...

jacquesm 4y ago
You missed this bit: "The poll, conducted March 14-15, shows that 64% of Americans currently express an unfavorable view of France, while only about half that number, 34%, have a favorable view. " That's the kind of damage such a thing does, silly idea or not.
- akerl_ 4y ago
  That's a pretty different thing than there being broad support for "freedom fries", or that the freedom fries thing was a relevant factor in affecting how citizens of other countries view the US or Americans. The US population's approval rating of our own elected government officials swings to a similar extent in basically every election cycle, so it's hard for me to imagine a world where that shift applied to a foreign country moves the needle on perception of the US.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    You may not believe that such a thing has an effect on the broader sentiment of how the population of one country views another but I believe it does and Gallup's own poll seems to at least confirm some correlation, possibly not causation. The trope of the French as 'cowardly cheese eating surrender monkeys' is well known enough to have it's own wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheese-eating_surrender_monkeys https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheese-eating_surrender_monkey...), and even though it started as a joke and never was intended to be used in any other way those sentiments have a way of leaking out of their container and infusing society. You will not find a mirror image sentiment in France. Whatever the cause and whatever the effects it seems strange to have such sentiments towards a country that was instrumental in the birth of your own, including shipping the Statue Of Liberty at a time that France could ill afford such symbolic luxuries, and yet they felt it important enough to make that gesture. So this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-French_sentiment_in_the_United_States#21st_century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-French_sentiment_in_the_U... is a bad symptom and as far as I am concerned should not be the case.
    - akerl_ 4y ago
      https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2021/01/19/british-french-and-german-publics-give-biden-high-marks-after-u-s-election/ https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2021/01/19/british-french... I'm not sure the polling data for how favorably the French population views the US aligns with what you're saying.
      - jacquesm 4y ago
        I see absolutely nothing in that article that contradicts my point, what exactly are you seeing that I am missing?
        akerl_ 4y ago
        https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2021/01/19/british-french-and-german-publics-give-biden-high-marks-after-u-s-election/pg_2021-01-19_u-s-image_0-06/ https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2021/01/19/british-french... French favorable vs unfavorable views of the US flex similarly to US views of France, and are likewise triggered by policy/political decisions in each country.
        jacquesm 4y ago
        Consider me dense but that is not the sentiment that I get from the article, it lumps all of Europe together, not France in isolation and that's the subject here I thought? The way I read the article is: Europeans on average are positive about their relationship with the United States, with the French sitting at 84% positive, the reverse is reflected in the views of the United States versus Europe as a whole at 73%. Individual sentiment of the United States versus various European countries is not broken out.
        akerl_ 4y ago
        The article is about the sweeping change in European favorability of the US in the wake of Biden taking office. The graph I linked from the article specifically breaks out France from the UK and Germany, and shows that the French population's position on the US has inverted several times in the measured period, with low points during the Trump and Bush presidencies where only around 40% of French respondents viewed the US favorably. I'm going to stop responding here rather than keep digging the thread deeper.

by akerl_ 4y ago

jacquesm 4y ago

You missed this bit: "The poll, conducted March 14-15, shows that 64% of Americans currently express an unfavorable view of France, while only about half that number, 34%, have a favorable view. " That's the kind of damage such a thing does, silly idea or not.

akerl_ 4y ago
That's a pretty different thing than there being broad support for "freedom fries", or that the freedom fries thing was a relevant factor in affecting how citizens of other countries view the US or Americans. The US population's approval rating of our own elected government officials swings to a similar extent in basically every election cycle, so it's hard for me to imagine a world where that shift applied to a foreign country moves the needle on perception of the US.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  You may not believe that such a thing has an effect on the broader sentiment of how the population of one country views another but I believe it does and Gallup's own poll seems to at least confirm some correlation, possibly not causation. The trope of the French as 'cowardly cheese eating surrender monkeys' is well known enough to have it's own wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheese-eating_surrender_monkeys https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheese-eating_surrender_monkey...), and even though it started as a joke and never was intended to be used in any other way those sentiments have a way of leaking out of their container and infusing society. You will not find a mirror image sentiment in France. Whatever the cause and whatever the effects it seems strange to have such sentiments towards a country that was instrumental in the birth of your own, including shipping the Statue Of Liberty at a time that France could ill afford such symbolic luxuries, and yet they felt it important enough to make that gesture. So this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-French_sentiment_in_the_United_States#21st_century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-French_sentiment_in_the_U... is a bad symptom and as far as I am concerned should not be the case.
  - akerl_ 4y ago
    https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2021/01/19/british-french-and-german-publics-give-biden-high-marks-after-u-s-election/ https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2021/01/19/british-french... I'm not sure the polling data for how favorably the French population views the US aligns with what you're saying.
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      I see absolutely nothing in that article that contradicts my point, what exactly are you seeing that I am missing?
      - akerl_ 4y ago
        https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2021/01/19/british-french-and-german-publics-give-biden-high-marks-after-u-s-election/pg_2021-01-19_u-s-image_0-06/ https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2021/01/19/british-french... French favorable vs unfavorable views of the US flex similarly to US views of France, and are likewise triggered by policy/political decisions in each country.
        jacquesm 4y ago
        Consider me dense but that is not the sentiment that I get from the article, it lumps all of Europe together, not France in isolation and that's the subject here I thought? The way I read the article is: Europeans on average are positive about their relationship with the United States, with the French sitting at 84% positive, the reverse is reflected in the views of the United States versus Europe as a whole at 73%. Individual sentiment of the United States versus various European countries is not broken out.
        akerl_ 4y ago
        The article is about the sweeping change in European favorability of the US in the wake of Biden taking office. The graph I linked from the article specifically breaks out France from the UK and Germany, and shows that the French population's position on the US has inverted several times in the measured period, with low points during the Trump and Bush presidencies where only around 40% of French respondents viewed the US favorably. I'm going to stop responding here rather than keep digging the thread deeper.