5 ms·

The for profit health system has a ton of problems and should be abandoned but it’s not the reason why people lost their minds over Covid. Germany has a better

The for profit health system has a ton of problems and should be abandoned but it’s not the reason why people lost their minds over Covid. Germany has a better health system (for normal earners. The US system is great for wealthy people) but still has a ton of anti vaxxers and Covid deniers.

a_bonobo 4y ago
I feel Germany is a slightly different beast as a large part of the anti-vax crowd in Germany seems to recruit itself from left-ish/Green corner of politics, the people who've been anti-Monsanto for decades. It's not a far jump from there to anti-vax (it's all big US companies etc.)
- groby_b 4y ago
  How's that different from the US? Nominally left-leaning yoga moms are a huge part of the antivax moxement. It's the same thing - a lack of understanding, an unwillingness to think critical, a naive belief that "nature good, human-made bad" without any nuance, and the willingness to deify their prophets of "natural healing".
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    Nominally left-leaning yoga moms should stick to yoga. The same goes for nominally right-leaning yoga moms. And yoga dads. Unless they feel like ditching every other 'human made' component from their lives as well for consistency. Essential oils for broken legs.
    - bluenomatterwho 4y ago
      Many people point out that hospitals tend to have tough luck with anything except broken bones. Preventative medicine, nutrition, etc have an impressive record for everything else. Essential oils may be a rather small part of this.
      - jacquesm 4y ago
        > Many people point out that hospitals tend to have tough luck with anything except broken bones. Many people talk dumb nonsense. Doesn't mean you should pay attention. Next time you have kidney trouble, appendicitis, an infected gal bladder, a blood clot in your aorta, a leaky heart valve or an infected tooth you'll be talking to a yoga mom then?
        bluenomatterwho 4y ago
        Indeed, many people induce unnecessary stress upon themselves spewing vitriol. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading... I spoke in general on purpose, to avoid getting into the weeds on statistics like this. Of course we are aware of modern medical techniques. But the general divide between holistic and allopathic medicine is well known. Perhaps a deep breath is in order.
  - stefantalpalaru 4y ago
    > Nominally left-leaning yoga moms are a huge part of the antivax moxement. It's the same thing - a lack of understanding, an unwillingness to think critical, a naive belief that "nature good, human-made bad" without any nuance, and the willingness to deify their prophets of "natural healing". Nice straw man you've got there. It would be a shame if this scientific bibliography were to shatter your worldview: https://gist.github.com/stefantalpalaru/b630413da6889c79f795612c0f569b12 https://gist.github.com/stefantalpalaru/b630413da6889c79f795...
- golemiprague 4y ago
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fithisux 4y ago
Correct reasoning
dagi3d 4y ago
In Spain there is universal healthcare which is not perfect but works relative ok (although has been eroded over time) and most antivaxxers(and anti mask and anti everything) could be found within the right spectrum, basically as no sayers to everything the current government (social democrats) would recommend and propose.
mns 4y ago
In Germany, anyone who didn’t agree with forcing people to get vaccinated and with lockdowns was considered a Covid denier. But in the end, once mask mandates were lifted and basically no one wears a mask any more, you see that a loud and aggressive minority was the one imposing the rules on everyone.

a_bonobo 4y ago

I feel Germany is a slightly different beast as a large part of the anti-vax crowd in Germany seems to recruit itself from left-ish/Green corner of politics, the people who've been anti-Monsanto for decades. It's not a far jump from there to anti-vax (it's all big US companies etc.)

groby_b 4y ago
How's that different from the US? Nominally left-leaning yoga moms are a huge part of the antivax moxement. It's the same thing - a lack of understanding, an unwillingness to think critical, a naive belief that "nature good, human-made bad" without any nuance, and the willingness to deify their prophets of "natural healing".
- jacquesm 4y ago
  Nominally left-leaning yoga moms should stick to yoga. The same goes for nominally right-leaning yoga moms. And yoga dads. Unless they feel like ditching every other 'human made' component from their lives as well for consistency. Essential oils for broken legs.
  - bluenomatterwho 4y ago
    Many people point out that hospitals tend to have tough luck with anything except broken bones. Preventative medicine, nutrition, etc have an impressive record for everything else. Essential oils may be a rather small part of this.
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      > Many people point out that hospitals tend to have tough luck with anything except broken bones. Many people talk dumb nonsense. Doesn't mean you should pay attention. Next time you have kidney trouble, appendicitis, an infected gal bladder, a blood clot in your aorta, a leaky heart valve or an infected tooth you'll be talking to a yoga mom then?
      - bluenomatterwho 4y ago
        Indeed, many people induce unnecessary stress upon themselves spewing vitriol. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading... I spoke in general on purpose, to avoid getting into the weeds on statistics like this. Of course we are aware of modern medical techniques. But the general divide between holistic and allopathic medicine is well known. Perhaps a deep breath is in order.
- stefantalpalaru 4y ago
  > Nominally left-leaning yoga moms are a huge part of the antivax moxement. It's the same thing - a lack of understanding, an unwillingness to think critical, a naive belief that "nature good, human-made bad" without any nuance, and the willingness to deify their prophets of "natural healing". Nice straw man you've got there. It would be a shame if this scientific bibliography were to shatter your worldview: https://gist.github.com/stefantalpalaru/b630413da6889c79f795612c0f569b12 https://gist.github.com/stefantalpalaru/b630413da6889c79f795...
golemiprague 4y ago
[dead]

fithisux 4y ago

Correct reasoning

dagi3d 4y ago

In Spain there is universal healthcare which is not perfect but works relative ok (although has been eroded over time) and most antivaxxers(and anti mask and anti everything) could be found within the right spectrum, basically as no sayers to everything the current government (social democrats) would recommend and propose.

mns 4y ago

In Germany, anyone who didn’t agree with forcing people to get vaccinated and with lockdowns was considered a Covid denier. But in the end, once mask mandates were lifted and basically no one wears a mask any more, you see that a loud and aggressive minority was the one imposing the rules on everyone.