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> There was a noticeable increase in thromboembolic events after COVID-19 vaccination started in my city. Plenty of people were saved by friends in the emergenc

> There was a noticeable increase in thromboembolic events after COVID-19 vaccination started in my city. Plenty of people were saved by friends in the emergency room. Thromboembolic events are a common side effect of COVID-19, and vaccine roll out often led to infection surges as the sense of normality returned before full immunity.

matheusmoreira 4y ago
Those events also happened in patients reporting full isolation.
EdwardDiego 4y ago
They're also caused by Covid infection. Which makes sense, if the spike proteins produced by the vaccine cause these issues, then so do the spike proteins produced by the virus.
- lamontcg 4y ago
  That logic is most likely simple, elegant and wrong.
  - EdwardDiego 4y ago
    Welp, I'm open to clarification. Given both the vaccine and the virus can cause myocarditis or pericarditis, and given that the only thing they have in common is the spike protein, I'm curious as to where you think I went wrong.
    - richardhod 4y ago
      Where you went wrong is getting it backwards. The vaccines are orders of magnitude less likely to cause cardiac problems than the virus itself, for fairly obvious medical reasons. And that cardiac events in both cases are a minor part of the greater effects and dangers of catching the disease. So it's about not focusing on the wrong things
      - jpadkins 4y ago
        > The vaccines are orders of magnitude less likely to cause cardiac problems than the virus itself, for fairly obvious medical reasons. Do you have a citation or evidence for that statement? Estimates for cardiac vaccine injury are in the 4-5% range. Your statement would imply that 40% of people infected with Covid would have cardiac issues. The evidence in low vaccine rate countries (or Africa) contradict your statement (no where near 40% of the population is getting cardiac issues).
    - lamontcg 4y ago
      The vaccine induced thrombotic thrombocytopenia caused by the adenovirus vaccines turns out to be due to PF4 binding to the adenovirus capsid and has exactly nothing to do with the spike protein, even though that is the only common factor between the vaccines and the virus. But it turns out that the clotting problems are totally separate. So that is a failure of the same kind of logic that you're trying to employ. You have a virus with a clotting issue and a vaccine with a clotting issue, and they both only share the spike protein, and we know for certain now that isn't the mechanism.
  - the_why_of_y 4y ago
    A quick search finds literally dozens of articles in medical journals like these: Thrombotic complications are frequent in COVID-19 and contribute significantly to mortality and morbidity https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32857878/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32857878/ One of the special characteristics of this disease is that it may predispose patients to thrombotic disease both in the venous and arterial circulation. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33719953/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33719953/
    - lamontcg 4y ago
      Which doesn't tie the problem to the spike protein or relate it to the vaccines.
      - the_why_of_y 4y ago
        Oh, it wasn't clear that that is what you meant. Thanks for elaborating in a sibling comment.

matheusmoreira 4y ago

Those events also happened in patients reporting full isolation.

EdwardDiego 4y ago

They're also caused by Covid infection. Which makes sense, if the spike proteins produced by the vaccine cause these issues, then so do the spike proteins produced by the virus.

lamontcg 4y ago
That logic is most likely simple, elegant and wrong.
- EdwardDiego 4y ago
  Welp, I'm open to clarification. Given both the vaccine and the virus can cause myocarditis or pericarditis, and given that the only thing they have in common is the spike protein, I'm curious as to where you think I went wrong.
  - richardhod 4y ago
    Where you went wrong is getting it backwards. The vaccines are orders of magnitude less likely to cause cardiac problems than the virus itself, for fairly obvious medical reasons. And that cardiac events in both cases are a minor part of the greater effects and dangers of catching the disease. So it's about not focusing on the wrong things
    - jpadkins 4y ago
      > The vaccines are orders of magnitude less likely to cause cardiac problems than the virus itself, for fairly obvious medical reasons. Do you have a citation or evidence for that statement? Estimates for cardiac vaccine injury are in the 4-5% range. Your statement would imply that 40% of people infected with Covid would have cardiac issues. The evidence in low vaccine rate countries (or Africa) contradict your statement (no where near 40% of the population is getting cardiac issues).
  - lamontcg 4y ago
    The vaccine induced thrombotic thrombocytopenia caused by the adenovirus vaccines turns out to be due to PF4 binding to the adenovirus capsid and has exactly nothing to do with the spike protein, even though that is the only common factor between the vaccines and the virus. But it turns out that the clotting problems are totally separate. So that is a failure of the same kind of logic that you're trying to employ. You have a virus with a clotting issue and a vaccine with a clotting issue, and they both only share the spike protein, and we know for certain now that isn't the mechanism.
- the_why_of_y 4y ago
  A quick search finds literally dozens of articles in medical journals like these: Thrombotic complications are frequent in COVID-19 and contribute significantly to mortality and morbidity https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32857878/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32857878/ One of the special characteristics of this disease is that it may predispose patients to thrombotic disease both in the venous and arterial circulation. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33719953/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33719953/
  - lamontcg 4y ago
    Which doesn't tie the problem to the spike protein or relate it to the vaccines.
    - the_why_of_y 4y ago
      Oh, it wasn't clear that that is what you meant. Thanks for elaborating in a sibling comment.