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86Box – Low level x86 emulator that runs older operating systems and software
- peter_d_sherman 4y agoRelated: https://github.com/86Box/WinBox-for-86Box https://github.com/86Box/WinBox-for-86Box (86Box Manager written in Delphi 11)
- chx 4y agoIt's weird the front page does not mention but 86box (and pcem from which it forked) is a cycle accurate emulator. This is the most important difference from DOSBox which does not even intend to be one. It's overall a lower level emulator, it needs a BIOS which DOSBox doesn't. All this means a comparison is hard between the two.
- pygy_ 4y agoIndeed, DOSBox has been written for DOS games (and it's great at this), compatibility with other software has never been a concern. BIOS and DOS calls are HLEd which is why neither are necessary to get it running.
- dark-star 4y ago86box is not at all cycle accurate. It's LLE, yes (as opposed to DosBox which is HLE), and the devs try to make the CPU as cycle-correct as possible, but that hardly means that the whole emulator and all devices it emulates are cycle-accurate
- rasz 4y ago>It's weird the front page does not mention but 86box (and pcem from which it forked) is a cycle accurate emulator. because it isnt. While hacking around to debug cache mod I patched bios to output my custom codes using POST card display https://github.com/raszpl/430FXL2Cache https://github.com/raszpl/430FXL2Cache. My code wouldnt work on real hardware for the longest time until I figured out 86box is really bad at timing. Something that runs at 1 per second IRL runs at hundreds of hertz in emulator, and vice versa depending on what you are going (accessing I/O). https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?p=1125370#p1125370 https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?p=1125370#p1125370 Turns out some real POST cards dont love the idea of writing to port 0x80 twice in a row without any delay and will Error out of hang whole computer. 86Box on the other hand hard links writes to 0x80 with its graphical output update routines and hammering that port not only slows down emulation, but can hang whole emulator so hard you cant even close it until reaching Program Not Responding Timeout.
- causi 4y agoInteresting. There is some software I've never managed to get running on DosBox or in a VM. Perhaps this is my solution.
- Emigre_ 4y agoHave you tried mame? It’s harder to set up but can emulate a PC.
- walrus01 4y agoI am somewhat curious as to how this is greatly different than QEMU?
- rahen 4y agoOr Bochs, more specifically. Qemu is a frontend to various CPU emulators and hypervisors (KVM, NVMM, HAXM etc.).
- perbu 4y agoQemu is a lot more than just a frontend. It contains both CPU emulation code and machine emulation code in addition to being able to leverage Linux as the hypervisor. It is a massive piece of software.
- rahen 4y agoOf course. I didn't imply the various backends and operating mode of Qemu weren't part of the set. I meant that Bochs and 86box are just single commands that do a single thing. Qemu is more like LLVM and is indeed massively more complex.
- anthk 4y agoQemu has a TCG accel. module.
- gattilorenz 4y agoNeither Bochs nor QEMU emulate a vast set of specific hardware (such as motherboards, CPUs, video, SCSI, sound and network cards) from the 90s. With 86box I managed to install and run, for example, a version of SCO Unix that only supports a very limited number of SCSI adapters and VGA cards: https://virtuallyfun.com/2021/07/13/installing-sco-unix-part-1/ https://virtuallyfun.com/2021/07/13/installing-sco-unix-part...
- rahen 4y agoInteresting. This could interest a project like NetBSD for automated regression testing on old hardware.
- TheChaplain 4y agoSome relevant info since 86Box is a fork of PCem; https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22859695 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22859695
- rnd0 4y agoThe fork was five years ago so I'm not sure how that's relevant? Do we need to mention that NetBSD is a fork of 386BSD everytime a NetBSD story comes up?
- dspillett 4y agoIf heard of PCem bit not 86Box. Likely there are people out there into the emulation scene bit not deep into it (I assume people with a deep interest are already well aware of this tool) who are in a similar position, for whom the context is useful in assessing whether playing with this is worth it or not to their interests.
- rnd0 4y agoPersonality conflicts aside, both pieces of software are different enough from each other that it's basically comparing apples to haute cusine. Myself, I've been using 86box since almost the beginning in large part because of the ui. To me, it's always been more pleasant to work with. If anyone has questions I'd say rather than listing to 2017-era gossips they should instead download both, spend the time playing with them and seeing which they prefer. It's not like the mid-nineties where trying things required a $50-$150 investment of cash.
- LocutusOfBorges 4y agoProfoundly sad that PCem ended up being abandoned while this hostile fork continues. It deserved a better fate.
- jlundberg 4y agoCurious to know more about this! Please elaborate on this if you don’t mind! :)
- snvzz 4y agoAm I missing something, or does it not emulate the serial port? I must be missing something, as it does even emulate 3d cards. There's no way it doesn't emulate the serial port.
- tom_ 4y agoMaybe not something for which there's much actual demand? For most purposes, you'd be better served by approximately anything other than a serial port.
- FreeFull 4y agoIt unfortunately doesn't expose the serial ports externally, but it is possible to use an emulated serial mouse. It'd definitely be nice if someone would add in code to give access to the serial ports.
- lastdong 4y agoFor MacOS, Boxer (http://boxerapp.com/ http://boxerapp.com/) is great. It creates executables (self contained distributable with zero dependencies) that include dosbox and the app to run - the creation is super easy drag n’drop. Dosbox footprint is very small. It’s just amazing to double click and start the app or game without having to worry about setting up dosbox.