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I know the author of this tool really wants to be able to make a living off this tool, and I fully support their pursuit of this, but I can't help but wonder if
by saghm 4y ago
I know the author of this tool really wants to be able to make a living off this tool, and I fully support their pursuit of this, but I can't help but wonder if doubling down on the strategy of making it harder to use to try out rather than easier is the wrong approach. The project I work on could potentially get a lot of benefit from switching over to mold, and I work at a company that potentially would be able to finance this project at the level they want due to the scale and potential amount of usage internally, but any attempts I've made to try to initiate discussion essentially isn't able to make progress due to the fact that I can't even attempt to make an estimate of how much it would cost (either in aggregate or per user/machine/team/etc.), and due to the fact that all of our builds happen in thoroughly scrutinized non-local environments and I can't just copy the code to a personal machine with mold installed to try out, I also can't offer any concrete numbers about how much time it would save to use it for our builds. It's unfortunate, because I think everyone basically agrees that this would 100% be worth pursuing if we knew for sure that it would be a significant improvement, as build times are a known pain point for our team, but no one with enough authority to actually try to contact and start discussing terms with the developer has enough time to justify spending bandwidth on this when I realistically don't have any concrete evidence that this would provide any benefit at all (and I don't really blame them for this, since I'm essentially just offering a hunch that this would be useful if we could use it).
I understand that using the linker purely for trying it out internally and not actually distributing anything linked by it would not trigger the AGPL in the same way that using it in production would, but our general policy is to err on the side of safety when it comes to things like this; for example, despite longing for some of the unstable features of the nightly version of rustfmt like being able to auto-merge imports, we currently don't use it due to not wanting anything related to the nightly toolchain in the CI we use for release builds in order to be extra sure that we don't accidentally ship anything unstable (think of it sort of like a layer of "defense in depth" for the build processes due to our product being in a highly sensitive security domain). The bad reputation that larger companies have with regards to free software licenses (which in many cases is probably deserved) means that the managers and teams who genuinely want to respect licenses and be community members and therefore would be the ones who normally _would_ be ideal customers for products like this instead tend to be incredibly risk averse about GPL-related software precisely because we want to avoid being part of the problem. I'm not really sure what the long-term solution here is, but I feel like the only path out of this local minimum is for both potential developers and customers of free software to signal eagerness to engage with potential partners on the other side in good faith. Instead, my reading of most of the communications about mold's commercial potential seem to be proactively defensive with a tinge of resentment. I fully empathize with these feelings and probably would feel the similarly if not even stronger in the same situation, but ultimately that's why I have no personal interest in pursuing entrepreneurship myself; being in the right isn't always going to be sufficient for succeeding in business, and sometimes the best strategy will be to be to give the benefit of the doubt even if it hasn't yet been earned.
- btdmaster 4y agoAGPL does not get triggered by distributing mold produced binaries or using mold. It gets triggered by using it as a service for someone else, for example automated code compilation for someone else. From the README.md: mold is available under AGPL. Note that that does not mean that you have to license your program under AGPL if you use mold to link your program. An output of the mold linker is a derived work of the object files and libraries you pass to the linker but not a derived work of the mold linker itself. In the same way, the sold linker is not legal to use except within its license, but this has no bearing on the binaries produced, as those are not derived work of the sold linker. The binaries produced are unrestricted, only using the sold linker in the first place is the issue. If it were a derived work, like maybe mold produces a binary that yanks some mold code, the story would be different: https://www.gnu.org/software/bison/manual/html_node/Conditions.html https://www.gnu.org/software/bison/manual/html_node/Conditio...
- saghm 4y agoI tried to cover this in my second paragraph, but I'll give it another shot; whether it's legal or not to use internally doesn't really change the political reality that trying to use this internally at most big companies will be an uphill battle that most people aren't going to fight. From a pragmatic perspective, perspective matters even if it's irrational; if anything, the fact that someone holds a perspective that's irrational is even _more_ of an argument that cold reason might not be effective at changing their behavior. This is a thing I've struggled with a lot in various circumstances, and I think it's not an uncommon hurdle for a lot of us in the tech community, but ultimately you have to decide whether you care more about how you make your case or if you care more about whether it succeeds. It's a totally defensible position to take that you shouldn't have to cater to people who have irrational fears about your product and that they should be willing to try it out based on the fact that the risk they worry about isn't real, but if what you really want is to be able to sell the product and have people use it, you won't be happy at the end of the day if that strategy doesn't work. I might be entirely incorrect about what the goals of the author of mold are, but based on what I've read, it sounds like this is basically the situation they're in now. If I'm incorrect, and they're genuinely happier sticking to their strategy even if it costs them the ability to sell the product, then my advice doesn't apply and they can and should ignore it. If they aren't happier this way though, I hope that they either consider a different strategy or that I'm completely wrong about what's stopped it from succeeding so far, because I just don't see the situation changing if there isn't a shift in how it's marketed.