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Well, turns out forcibly removing native american property, land and riches and then relocating them has effects that can be felt even after generations. Who kn

Well, turns out forcibly removing native american property, land and riches and then relocating them has effects that can be felt even after generations. Who knew?

robomartin 4y ago
There's not doubt about that at all. My question was about whether having total dependency on government forever is a path that will ever lead to better outcomes for that and other population segments in similar dependency scenarios. I cannot find a single example in human history where a group of people under such circumstances were able to achieve the kind of change in their lives that those outside such systems. This does not mean "cut off the help immediately and let them figure it out" as one or more commenters who clearly need to be introduced to the concept of having a conversation chose to mischaracterize. Of course not. It is perfectly sensible to help people for a wide variety of reasons. And we should definitely do it. Nobody would want to live in the kind of society that does not. However, I think it is fair to say that at some point help can very easily turn into something harmful. And this isn't just about help or the poor. This, I believe, is a mechanism that is part of the human condition. How many multi-millionaire celebrities succumb to drugs, addition and sometimes even die because of it? It's always the same thing: No money worries, no need to be in a "daily grind", people disintegrate into potentially harmful behaviors. It's bad enough when this happens to isolated individuals. When this extends to entire sub-groups of a society, it become a destructive force. I don't know what the solution might be. I just know that people disintegrate when everything is handed to them. Not to go too far, I saw this happen during the pandemic to my next door neighbor's adult son (30-something). He told me the money he was getting from the government was more than he was making at work. In the span of a year and a half he went from being a guy helped his parent, you could have a conversation with and went to work every day to a drunken drug addict. It was horrible to watch. Devastating. This actually ruined this family. After the pandemic they kicked him out of the house. I just saw him yesterday. They guy is destroyed. Still living on a government handout for some reason. Not sure he will ever come back. This is real.

Well, turns out forcibly removing native american property, land and riches and then relocating them has effects that can be felt even after generations. Who knew?

robomartin 4y ago

There's not doubt about that at all. My question was about whether having total dependency on government forever is a path that will ever lead to better outcomes for that and other population segments in similar dependency scenarios. I cannot find a single example in human history where a group of people under such circumstances were able to achieve the kind of change in their lives that those outside such systems. This does not mean "cut off the help immediately and let them figure it out" as one or more commenters who clearly need to be introduced to the concept of having a conversation chose to mischaracterize. Of course not. It is perfectly sensible to help people for a wide variety of reasons. And we should definitely do it. Nobody would want to live in the kind of society that does not. However, I think it is fair to say that at some point help can very easily turn into something harmful. And this isn't just about help or the poor. This, I believe, is a mechanism that is part of the human condition. How many multi-millionaire celebrities succumb to drugs, addition and sometimes even die because of it? It's always the same thing: No money worries, no need to be in a "daily grind", people disintegrate into potentially harmful behaviors. It's bad enough when this happens to isolated individuals. When this extends to entire sub-groups of a society, it become a destructive force. I don't know what the solution might be. I just know that people disintegrate when everything is handed to them. Not to go too far, I saw this happen during the pandemic to my next door neighbor's adult son (30-something). He told me the money he was getting from the government was more than he was making at work. In the span of a year and a half he went from being a guy helped his parent, you could have a conversation with and went to work every day to a drunken drug addict. It was horrible to watch. Devastating. This actually ruined this family. After the pandemic they kicked him out of the house. I just saw him yesterday. They guy is destroyed. Still living on a government handout for some reason. Not sure he will ever come back. This is real.