3 ms·

Why do you assume that compilation only happens in CI/CD?

by terafo 4y ago

sacnoradhq 4y ago
Because professionals don't wait around synchronously for local builds when they can do distributed builds async.
- jraph 4y ago
  Oh yes, they do. Source: I'm a professional dev. Many projects don't have cutting edge build systems. I'm also not committing temporary code just to make the CI produce a build that I'll need to download. I'll build locally.
  - sacnoradhq 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - saagarjha 4y ago
      Professional developer here, working with some of the best build systems on the planet–distributed, cached, the whole nine yards. In the past I worked as an iOS engineer for a project which would benefit from mold. You are very wrong about how to produce impact at scale. When your actual job is dependent on the build completing there’s not a whole lot you can do in the 5-10 minutes it takes to complete. You can skim a bit of email but there isn’t actually much you can do during that time that has lasting impact. I know, because I worked on projects like these on the side: precisely because this time was difficult to schedule stuff into, you’d save hundreds of thousands of dollars per year for each minute you reduced build times. I made a handful of these changes and they were always in longer stretches of slack time, such as when I was waiting for approvals to go through. There’s not much you can do in five minutes but it is very valuable for it to be turned into two minutes.
    - eptcyka 4y ago
      Are you implying it's a good thing a tool is slow, because it then allows you to show off your degree of professionalism? Or am I misinterpreting your opinion on this matter? As far as I'm concerned, I'd love faster linkers, compilers, everything. I don't believe longer compile times help me make more money. Are your posts subsidized by time share CPU companies? Or Big Power, by any chance?
    - mynameisash 4y ago
      But no true dev would put sugar on his porridge.
  - skyzyx 4y ago
    @sacnoradhq: what did you the person building the build system in the first place? Or the one that actually builds the runner instances themselves that everybody else leverages? What you’re suggesting is certainly the ideal case, but there are lots of things that can happen between where you are and where you want to end up. Saying that somebody isn’t a professional developer just because they haven’t reached the ideal state yet is bullshit. It’s also easy to go around telling other people what they are or aren’t when you haven’t had the responsibility of building these building blocks yourself. You’re the user of them, not the creator of them. Have some respect for the giants whose shoulders you’re standing upon.
- skyzyx 4y ago
  Utterly false. I build locally all the time to make sure that the thing works before I commit the code.
  - sacnoradhq 4y ago
    Do you wait around for a 30 minute build with a coffee rather than do something else useful? If not, then you don't need mold. Do you not have automated unit and integration testing? Do you not have code review and CI before code lands? Do you not have distributed, cached, incremental builds?
    - MereInterest 4y ago
      If I’m developing a feature, I run the newly written unit tests locally. If I have a CI failure, the first step in debugging is to reproduce the failing test locally. Improving build time isn’t just about changing 30-minute builds to 30-second builds, but also about changing 30-second builds into 2-second builds.
- sagarm 4y ago
  You can't distribute linking AFAIK. While I often do finish other development related tasks during longer builds, it doesn't make sense to context switch to something completely different during a 1-2 minute delay. I will build dozens of times a day while testing or optimizing functionality, so this can really add up. That said recent versions of clang + lld + fission result in <20 sec compile+link times even on a multi-gigabyte executable, so the need for mold is significantly lessened. Users that are currently using gold will see a dramatic improvement.
- flqn 4y ago
  Having a quick edit->build->run iteration time is important. Drop your dogmatic views on what makes a "professional" (hint: it literally just means someone who gets paid to do the work).

Why do you assume that compilation only happens in CI/CD?

by terafo 4y ago

Why do you assume that compilation only happens in CI/CD?

sacnoradhq 4y ago

Because professionals don't wait around synchronously for local builds when they can do distributed builds async.

jraph 4y ago
Oh yes, they do. Source: I'm a professional dev. Many projects don't have cutting edge build systems. I'm also not committing temporary code just to make the CI produce a build that I'll need to download. I'll build locally.
- sacnoradhq 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - saagarjha 4y ago
    Professional developer here, working with some of the best build systems on the planet–distributed, cached, the whole nine yards. In the past I worked as an iOS engineer for a project which would benefit from mold. You are very wrong about how to produce impact at scale. When your actual job is dependent on the build completing there’s not a whole lot you can do in the 5-10 minutes it takes to complete. You can skim a bit of email but there isn’t actually much you can do during that time that has lasting impact. I know, because I worked on projects like these on the side: precisely because this time was difficult to schedule stuff into, you’d save hundreds of thousands of dollars per year for each minute you reduced build times. I made a handful of these changes and they were always in longer stretches of slack time, such as when I was waiting for approvals to go through. There’s not much you can do in five minutes but it is very valuable for it to be turned into two minutes.
  - eptcyka 4y ago
    Are you implying it's a good thing a tool is slow, because it then allows you to show off your degree of professionalism? Or am I misinterpreting your opinion on this matter? As far as I'm concerned, I'd love faster linkers, compilers, everything. I don't believe longer compile times help me make more money. Are your posts subsidized by time share CPU companies? Or Big Power, by any chance?
  - mynameisash 4y ago
    But no true dev would put sugar on his porridge.
- skyzyx 4y ago
  @sacnoradhq: what did you the person building the build system in the first place? Or the one that actually builds the runner instances themselves that everybody else leverages? What you’re suggesting is certainly the ideal case, but there are lots of things that can happen between where you are and where you want to end up. Saying that somebody isn’t a professional developer just because they haven’t reached the ideal state yet is bullshit. It’s also easy to go around telling other people what they are or aren’t when you haven’t had the responsibility of building these building blocks yourself. You’re the user of them, not the creator of them. Have some respect for the giants whose shoulders you’re standing upon.
skyzyx 4y ago
Utterly false. I build locally all the time to make sure that the thing works before I commit the code.
- sacnoradhq 4y ago
  Do you wait around for a 30 minute build with a coffee rather than do something else useful? If not, then you don't need mold. Do you not have automated unit and integration testing? Do you not have code review and CI before code lands? Do you not have distributed, cached, incremental builds?
  - MereInterest 4y ago
    If I’m developing a feature, I run the newly written unit tests locally. If I have a CI failure, the first step in debugging is to reproduce the failing test locally. Improving build time isn’t just about changing 30-minute builds to 30-second builds, but also about changing 30-second builds into 2-second builds.
sagarm 4y ago
You can't distribute linking AFAIK. While I often do finish other development related tasks during longer builds, it doesn't make sense to context switch to something completely different during a 1-2 minute delay. I will build dozens of times a day while testing or optimizing functionality, so this can really add up. That said recent versions of clang + lld + fission result in <20 sec compile+link times even on a multi-gigabyte executable, so the need for mold is significantly lessened. Users that are currently using gold will see a dramatic improvement.
flqn 4y ago
Having a quick edit->build->run iteration time is important. Drop your dogmatic views on what makes a "professional" (hint: it literally just means someone who gets paid to do the work).