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Support's right, you'll win the case. If they open a return case, they need to send the item back. Happens all the time to us. >I’m deeply frustrated that eB

Support's right, you'll win the case. If they open a return case, they need to send the item back. Happens all the time to us. >I’m deeply frustrated that eBay is so heavily tilted toward the buyer Their answer to this criticism is that siding with the buyer by default creates trust, which encourages more buyers to use the platform and therefore increases sales volume for their seller. I'm honestly inclined to agree. I'd much rather lose 1% of our revenue each year to fraud and unnecessary returns than 50% through buyer hesitation because they're not sure their items will work or even arrive.

buck4roo 4y ago
Counterfeits, fraud, and theft: Why Silca changed its return policy - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32362363 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32362363 Good insight into the merchant side of customer return fraud.
midoridensha 4y ago
>Their answer to this criticism is that siding with the buyer by default creates trust, which encourages more buyers to use the platform and therefore increases sales volume for their seller. I'm honestly inclined to agree. I'm not: it depends on the seller. If you're a high-volume seller, then sure: a few bad transactions like this overall is the "price of doing business" because the popularity of the platform means you'll do much more sales volume, which more than makes up for a few shitty buyers. However, if you're a low-volume seller who's just using Ebay to sell your old stuff, with only a very small number of higher-value items sold per year, then even a single bad transaction like this can ruin your profit and make it not worth it to sell on this platform. Personally, I'm much more inclined to sell high-value stuff via Facebook Marketplace, in-person only, because of this possibility. Add in Ebay's high fees and FBM is really attractive, but the problem is you're limited to people in your local area. However, Ebay years ago decided they cared much more about the high-volume sellers than the regular Joes using it as a virtual garage sale venue, so this makes sense for Ebay and increasing their stock price. To be fair though, in my years of using Ebay as a low-volume individual, I haven't had many bad transactions, and have been able to sell off a lot of stuff.
FireBeyond 4y ago
> Support's right, you'll win the case. If they open a return case, they need to send the item back. Happens all the time to us. Haha, this is optimistic. I'm 99% a buyer (hundreds of items bought, and three items sold, and never again). I sold a Mavic 2 Pro drone with 5 batteries. The whole process was a mess. Buyer complained that it didn't come with the CrystalSky tablet in one picture (that was only added after the buyer started bidding was requested BY the buyer, to show Flight Logs, was explicitly disclaimed as being a part of the package, and was not in the receipts I sent the buyer). After pointing out those details, silence. Then, three weeks later: "The batteries don't work." "Any of them?" "Nope. I want a refund." Note that two of the batteries were less than 4 months old, still in warranty. He then stated he wanted a refund of $800. Bear in mind, 5 -brand new- batteries would be $670. No evidence was shown. I stated I'd like to get the original batteries back, as I'd be able to get them replaced under warranty or possibly repaired and recoup some of my money (I was skeptical there was -any- issue, but still, good faith). He agreed. I asked him to send me a message -on eBay- acknowledging that offering a partial refund was contingent on him sending me the batteries back and that he accepts me disputing the refund if not. He does so. Refund is sent (for about $700, to include his return shipping costs). Less than an hour later I get a message, "USPS says they won't ship damaged batteries so I will not be returning them". (Like, 35 minutes. So what, you sat around waiting, and then the moment I sent this money you jumped in your car, got to the post office, had this discussion, got home, and sent me this message?) I then suggest we meet in person to exchange them (I live a few hours away, not convenient, but still, $700...). He umms and ahhs, "How will I be able to prove that I gave them to you in person?". I suggest we do it in a police station (his local PD even welcomes people to use their lobby for CL, etc.). More umms and ahhs. "I need to contact eBay support to see if they recommend this." (eBay literally has a specific FAQ page describing how they recommend doing in person sales, and refunds, documentation thereof, and how they support it). But he ignores that and says, "I never heard back from eBay support so I'm not sure what to do". I point this page out again, and he goes silent. I open a dispute. No evidence provided for damage/faulty goods (I'd asked for even a video of him putting a battery in the drone, to show it wasn't active - or putting one on a charger. Nothing.) Multiple instances of the buyer trying to show something/anything was problematic with the listing. Not abiding by agreement, refusing/avoiding any method of returning damaged items. Overnight, no further inquiries. "We have closed your dispute. Based on our review, the buyer is entitled to a partial refund for damage. He is also not required to return the damaged items". So he ended up with a Mavic 2 Pro, with less than 20 hours flight time, 5 batteries, for in the order of $950, all told. eBay is on the side of least resistance, damage or liability, financial responsibility to eBay, no-one else.

buck4roo 4y ago

Counterfeits, fraud, and theft: Why Silca changed its return policy - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32362363 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32362363 Good insight into the merchant side of customer return fraud.

midoridensha 4y ago

>Their answer to this criticism is that siding with the buyer by default creates trust, which encourages more buyers to use the platform and therefore increases sales volume for their seller. I'm honestly inclined to agree. I'm not: it depends on the seller. If you're a high-volume seller, then sure: a few bad transactions like this overall is the "price of doing business" because the popularity of the platform means you'll do much more sales volume, which more than makes up for a few shitty buyers. However, if you're a low-volume seller who's just using Ebay to sell your old stuff, with only a very small number of higher-value items sold per year, then even a single bad transaction like this can ruin your profit and make it not worth it to sell on this platform. Personally, I'm much more inclined to sell high-value stuff via Facebook Marketplace, in-person only, because of this possibility. Add in Ebay's high fees and FBM is really attractive, but the problem is you're limited to people in your local area. However, Ebay years ago decided they cared much more about the high-volume sellers than the regular Joes using it as a virtual garage sale venue, so this makes sense for Ebay and increasing their stock price. To be fair though, in my years of using Ebay as a low-volume individual, I haven't had many bad transactions, and have been able to sell off a lot of stuff.

FireBeyond 4y ago

> Support's right, you'll win the case. If they open a return case, they need to send the item back. Happens all the time to us. Haha, this is optimistic. I'm 99% a buyer (hundreds of items bought, and three items sold, and never again). I sold a Mavic 2 Pro drone with 5 batteries. The whole process was a mess. Buyer complained that it didn't come with the CrystalSky tablet in one picture (that was only added after the buyer started bidding was requested BY the buyer, to show Flight Logs, was explicitly disclaimed as being a part of the package, and was not in the receipts I sent the buyer). After pointing out those details, silence. Then, three weeks later: "The batteries don't work." "Any of them?" "Nope. I want a refund." Note that two of the batteries were less than 4 months old, still in warranty. He then stated he wanted a refund of $800. Bear in mind, 5 -brand new- batteries would be $670. No evidence was shown. I stated I'd like to get the original batteries back, as I'd be able to get them replaced under warranty or possibly repaired and recoup some of my money (I was skeptical there was -any- issue, but still, good faith). He agreed. I asked him to send me a message -on eBay- acknowledging that offering a partial refund was contingent on him sending me the batteries back and that he accepts me disputing the refund if not. He does so. Refund is sent (for about $700, to include his return shipping costs). Less than an hour later I get a message, "USPS says they won't ship damaged batteries so I will not be returning them". (Like, 35 minutes. So what, you sat around waiting, and then the moment I sent this money you jumped in your car, got to the post office, had this discussion, got home, and sent me this message?) I then suggest we meet in person to exchange them (I live a few hours away, not convenient, but still, $700...). He umms and ahhs, "How will I be able to prove that I gave them to you in person?". I suggest we do it in a police station (his local PD even welcomes people to use their lobby for CL, etc.). More umms and ahhs. "I need to contact eBay support to see if they recommend this." (eBay literally has a specific FAQ page describing how they recommend doing in person sales, and refunds, documentation thereof, and how they support it). But he ignores that and says, "I never heard back from eBay support so I'm not sure what to do". I point this page out again, and he goes silent. I open a dispute. No evidence provided for damage/faulty goods (I'd asked for even a video of him putting a battery in the drone, to show it wasn't active - or putting one on a charger. Nothing.) Multiple instances of the buyer trying to show something/anything was problematic with the listing. Not abiding by agreement, refusing/avoiding any method of returning damaged items. Overnight, no further inquiries. "We have closed your dispute. Based on our review, the buyer is entitled to a partial refund for damage. He is also not required to return the damaged items". So he ended up with a Mavic 2 Pro, with less than 20 hours flight time, 5 batteries, for in the order of $950, all told. eBay is on the side of least resistance, damage or liability, financial responsibility to eBay, no-one else.