4 ms·

Ask HN: Berlin, Stockholm or Paris?

11 points by Raed667 4y ago

If you had the choice to relocate to Berlin, Stockholm or Paris, to work for an EU based company? Which one would you pick (or have already picked) and why?

thimm 4y ago
[flagged]
rmason 4y ago
For personal preference I'd say Paris. You'd eat better and have a richer cultural life. But if your ambition is to eventually become an entrepreneur then Stockholm or perhaps Berlin. I say Stockholm because they have a stronger startup community, probably second to London and they have more unicorns than anywhere in Europe.
asdadsdad 4y ago
I'd go for Paris, but depends on your culture too. I also think that Paris is stepping up its game after Brexit to attract tech, so you might find it a good deal in the future should you choose to branch out or start your own thing. Learn French tho.
pestatije 4y ago
Paris: food, Berlin: clubbing, Stockholm: social welfare
nicbou 4y ago
I help people relocate to Berlin. Right now, Berlin feels full. It's become nearly impossible for newcomers to find a place to live. Otherwise it's a fantastic city. It's big and bustling with life, yet quiet and full of green spaces. The bureaucracy will drive you insane, as will queueing and making appointments in weeks for every damn thing, but you'll never get tired of all the things going on. It's getting expensive, but it's still easy to have cheap fun. I wouldn't live anywhere else.
- Raed667 4y ago
  So living in city center wouldn't be possible/affordable? How much German does one need to figure out the legal paperwork, banks, taxes etc.. ?
  - nness 4y ago
    I have a friend who relocated 2-3 years ago from an English-speaking country and found that the language-barrier to be significant. Whilst Berlin'ers are often fluent in English, Government services, or even simple things like visiting a post-office, are conducted in German only and seldom published in other languages. Learning the language and having some friends who are native speakers really goes a long way. (But I imagine that this insight would ring true for most if not all of Europe)
  - nicbou 4y ago
    It would be possible and affordable for some, far more than elsewhere. It's just really damn hard to find an apartment at all, seemingly at any reasonable price point. I can't overstate how much harder it got in the last two years. Some people don't learn German at all and get by. They are surprisingly many, even in the 5+ years club. I think that it adds extra stress since you must pick from a smaller subset of English-speaking services. Even then, the bureaucracy speaks German and you'll sometimes need people to read letters and make phone calls for you. I remember the anxiety of getting letters I couldn't read, and having to react to them. People tend to procrastinate or avoid important tasks because of it. But I think that the biggest disadvantage is that you miss a big part of what's going on. You get a very muted version of the local culture. Still, it's all doable and well worth it. I just figure that this is the information you need now, not a sales pitch for this city.
dudul 4y ago
Depends on where you're coming from. I've lived and worked in all 3 and I would say Stockholm. It's the easiest to navigate if you don't speak the language.
aborsy 4y ago
Paris will drive you mentally insane. Aggressive, dirty (I am sorry, but people are used to outright peeing in public; lots of litter everywhere etc), very expensive (I just check pap.fr, the rental prices are Bay Area level per unit area; imagine the salaries!), high taxes, low salaries, periodic strikes, general dysfunction, least tolerance for English among those options you mentioned, rampant petty crime, high bureaucracy, etc. I would stay away from EU. If you absolutely must, Berlin will be my choice. Government offices such as KVR are efficient and well organized; people speak English to some extent.
082349872349872 4y ago
Which languages do you speak?
cosmodisk 4y ago
I lived in Stockholm for some time before relocating to London. It's a very nice city, good public transport, etc. Depending on where you come from it can be either lovely or very difficult in winter.

11 points by Raed667 4y ago

If you had the choice to relocate to Berlin, Stockholm or Paris, to work for an EU based company? Which one would you pick (or have already picked) and why?

thimm 4y ago

[flagged]

rmason 4y ago

For personal preference I'd say Paris. You'd eat better and have a richer cultural life. But if your ambition is to eventually become an entrepreneur then Stockholm or perhaps Berlin. I say Stockholm because they have a stronger startup community, probably second to London and they have more unicorns than anywhere in Europe.

asdadsdad 4y ago

I'd go for Paris, but depends on your culture too. I also think that Paris is stepping up its game after Brexit to attract tech, so you might find it a good deal in the future should you choose to branch out or start your own thing. Learn French tho.

pestatije 4y ago

Paris: food, Berlin: clubbing, Stockholm: social welfare

nicbou 4y ago

I help people relocate to Berlin. Right now, Berlin feels full. It's become nearly impossible for newcomers to find a place to live. Otherwise it's a fantastic city. It's big and bustling with life, yet quiet and full of green spaces. The bureaucracy will drive you insane, as will queueing and making appointments in weeks for every damn thing, but you'll never get tired of all the things going on. It's getting expensive, but it's still easy to have cheap fun. I wouldn't live anywhere else.

Raed667 4y ago
So living in city center wouldn't be possible/affordable? How much German does one need to figure out the legal paperwork, banks, taxes etc.. ?
- nness 4y ago
  I have a friend who relocated 2-3 years ago from an English-speaking country and found that the language-barrier to be significant. Whilst Berlin'ers are often fluent in English, Government services, or even simple things like visiting a post-office, are conducted in German only and seldom published in other languages. Learning the language and having some friends who are native speakers really goes a long way. (But I imagine that this insight would ring true for most if not all of Europe)
- nicbou 4y ago
  It would be possible and affordable for some, far more than elsewhere. It's just really damn hard to find an apartment at all, seemingly at any reasonable price point. I can't overstate how much harder it got in the last two years. Some people don't learn German at all and get by. They are surprisingly many, even in the 5+ years club. I think that it adds extra stress since you must pick from a smaller subset of English-speaking services. Even then, the bureaucracy speaks German and you'll sometimes need people to read letters and make phone calls for you. I remember the anxiety of getting letters I couldn't read, and having to react to them. People tend to procrastinate or avoid important tasks because of it. But I think that the biggest disadvantage is that you miss a big part of what's going on. You get a very muted version of the local culture. Still, it's all doable and well worth it. I just figure that this is the information you need now, not a sales pitch for this city.

dudul 4y ago

Depends on where you're coming from. I've lived and worked in all 3 and I would say Stockholm. It's the easiest to navigate if you don't speak the language.

aborsy 4y ago

Paris will drive you mentally insane. Aggressive, dirty (I am sorry, but people are used to outright peeing in public; lots of litter everywhere etc), very expensive (I just check pap.fr, the rental prices are Bay Area level per unit area; imagine the salaries!), high taxes, low salaries, periodic strikes, general dysfunction, least tolerance for English among those options you mentioned, rampant petty crime, high bureaucracy, etc. I would stay away from EU. If you absolutely must, Berlin will be my choice. Government offices such as KVR are efficient and well organized; people speak English to some extent.

082349872349872 4y ago

Which languages do you speak?

cosmodisk 4y ago

I lived in Stockholm for some time before relocating to London. It's a very nice city, good public transport, etc. Depending on where you come from it can be either lovely or very difficult in winter.