5 ms·

Quoting my own previous comment on the paper, > If I did the math right, the odds of hitting the opening hand you want is 0.00004%. Give or take a mulligan and

by iamevn 4y ago

Quoting my own previous comment on the paper, > If I did the math right, the odds of hitting the opening hand you want is 0.00004%. Give or take a mulligan and maybe being able to get the combo off on turn two or three I think that's high enough odds that one could conceivably eventually succeed (assuming they can find opponents for years and years). Here's the deck list: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/3933484#paper https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/3933484#paper which has actually come down in price a decent amount recently. It's on my list of silly things to buy.

mdaniel 4y ago
> 4 Grim Monolith $1,110.00 > 4 Power Artifact $996.00 Yeowzers, I wonder if there are replacements for those two cards that would bring the price down into the realm of what I consider "silly things to buy"?
- actually_a_dog 4y ago
  That depends. What would be the purpose of doing so? If it's because you want to play the deck and see it work, then just get a sharpie, some paper, 8 generic Magic cards, and some deck sleeves. For those 4 cards, just write "Grim Monolith" or "Power Artifact" plus whatever else you need on there to remind you what they do. If that's not it, or not at least close to the reason you're asking, then the answer is probably that those 8 cards are critical components of the engine, and you need to have them if you're going to play them in a "serious" setting.
- raffraffraff 4y ago
  Can someone explain how this is any better than pay-to-ein games?
  - stnikolauswagne 4y ago
    My argument would be that it caps out at a certain point where more money stopes equalling higher win%, I have played a lot of high level magic tournaments and budget was never really something that impacted the meta game at the higher levels. I always compare it to something like golf, my nearest golf club is 1500€/year, the equipment would probably be another 500 or so, does this make golf a play-to-win game or just an expensive hobby? E: Ironically the thing thats most pay-to-win about magic is the way tournaments used to be ran, being actually competitive at a decent level involves 1-2 trips to different cities on the continent a month, with the occasional trip to a different continent thrown in. In my competitive years I spend like 1k/year on cards, pulled in 2k/year in winnings and spent probably 8k in flights and hotel costs.
  - everforward 4y ago
    Outside of tournament play, proxies (fake cards) are generally permitted. They range from writing the name of the card you want on a much cheaper card all the way to professionally printed cards that weren't printed by Wizards. There are also some very good and still cheap decks. Price is a function of supply and demand, and some decks can take advantage of high-supply low-demand cards (because they only work in a very particular deck). Budget probably is a factor for tournament play. Small differences can be big at that level of play, and proxies aren't allowed.
  - willcipriano 4y ago
    If you can afford them, pay to win games can be fun. Games are more fun when the players are invested. The alternative "play thousands of hours to win" favors children and the unemployed and is unfair in its own way. Having a high end mtg deck is like having a membership at a private golf club, it gives you access to other players who also are willing to invest good money into the game and take it seriously. My main modern deck is something like $500 and in theory I could sell it and get some of that back down the road. I couldn't imagine shuffling a deck worth 100k+ though.
  - whoknew1122 4y ago
    Pay-to-win games are generally video games which have one ruleset. Playing Magic in tournaments has largely been P2W for decades. It's a collectable card game, so the cards have varying rarity. The more powerful cards cost more on the secondary market. And Wizards of the Coast (and now Hasbro) keeps releasing new cards, which require more investment. But if I'm playing with my friends, we can make up whatever rules we want. I can easily source proxy ('fake') cards much more cheaply. Or, what we used to do, you get a land card (which is practically worthless) and write the name of the card you want on it. Then you act as if that land is the card you wrote. So amongst friends it's not nearly as expensive, because you can play Magic outside of the tournament ruleset. Not so with most P2W video games.
- dtx1 4y ago
  https://mpcfill.com/ https://mpcfill.com/

by iamevn 4y ago

mdaniel 4y ago

> 4 Grim Monolith $1,110.00 > 4 Power Artifact $996.00 Yeowzers, I wonder if there are replacements for those two cards that would bring the price down into the realm of what I consider "silly things to buy"?

actually_a_dog 4y ago
That depends. What would be the purpose of doing so? If it's because you want to play the deck and see it work, then just get a sharpie, some paper, 8 generic Magic cards, and some deck sleeves. For those 4 cards, just write "Grim Monolith" or "Power Artifact" plus whatever else you need on there to remind you what they do. If that's not it, or not at least close to the reason you're asking, then the answer is probably that those 8 cards are critical components of the engine, and you need to have them if you're going to play them in a "serious" setting.
raffraffraff 4y ago
Can someone explain how this is any better than pay-to-ein games?
- stnikolauswagne 4y ago
  My argument would be that it caps out at a certain point where more money stopes equalling higher win%, I have played a lot of high level magic tournaments and budget was never really something that impacted the meta game at the higher levels. I always compare it to something like golf, my nearest golf club is 1500€/year, the equipment would probably be another 500 or so, does this make golf a play-to-win game or just an expensive hobby? E: Ironically the thing thats most pay-to-win about magic is the way tournaments used to be ran, being actually competitive at a decent level involves 1-2 trips to different cities on the continent a month, with the occasional trip to a different continent thrown in. In my competitive years I spend like 1k/year on cards, pulled in 2k/year in winnings and spent probably 8k in flights and hotel costs.
- everforward 4y ago
  Outside of tournament play, proxies (fake cards) are generally permitted. They range from writing the name of the card you want on a much cheaper card all the way to professionally printed cards that weren't printed by Wizards. There are also some very good and still cheap decks. Price is a function of supply and demand, and some decks can take advantage of high-supply low-demand cards (because they only work in a very particular deck). Budget probably is a factor for tournament play. Small differences can be big at that level of play, and proxies aren't allowed.
- willcipriano 4y ago
  If you can afford them, pay to win games can be fun. Games are more fun when the players are invested. The alternative "play thousands of hours to win" favors children and the unemployed and is unfair in its own way. Having a high end mtg deck is like having a membership at a private golf club, it gives you access to other players who also are willing to invest good money into the game and take it seriously. My main modern deck is something like $500 and in theory I could sell it and get some of that back down the road. I couldn't imagine shuffling a deck worth 100k+ though.
- whoknew1122 4y ago
  Pay-to-win games are generally video games which have one ruleset. Playing Magic in tournaments has largely been P2W for decades. It's a collectable card game, so the cards have varying rarity. The more powerful cards cost more on the secondary market. And Wizards of the Coast (and now Hasbro) keeps releasing new cards, which require more investment. But if I'm playing with my friends, we can make up whatever rules we want. I can easily source proxy ('fake') cards much more cheaply. Or, what we used to do, you get a land card (which is practically worthless) and write the name of the card you want on it. Then you act as if that land is the card you wrote. So amongst friends it's not nearly as expensive, because you can play Magic outside of the tournament ruleset. Not so with most P2W video games.
dtx1 4y ago
https://mpcfill.com/ https://mpcfill.com/