8 ms·

Yeah a friend has been pulling 1.2Gbps off a Ubiquiti U6 Pro - not sure how with the uplink being 1GbE but the numbers seem real.

wkat4242 4y ago
I wish 10GbE switches and NICs would finally come down in price. I'm not interested in investing in 2.5GbE gear and then have to do the same again in a few years :(
- nixgeek 4y ago
  One of the more affordable options nowadays is the Ubiquiti Flex XG [1] ($299) for a 5-port unit with 4 being 10GE. I’m using lots of their Switch XG 6 PoE [2] ($599) since it can drive 5GE ports on my APs and supports 802.3bt (which is required to power them up without limitations!). Lots of prebuilt PC systems are coming with 2.5GE NICs - “build your own” and it feels like most motherboards are now 2.5GE? Upgrading existing to 2.5GE is pretty cheap (~$30 USD), even via USB adapters [3]. To me, I think it’s fine with NBase-T that the switches be 10GE and the clients negotiate at 2.5GE or 5GE, although I’d note that both Mac Mini, iMac and Mac Studio can now be OEM specified with 10GE NIC for I think $100 additional. [1] https://dl.ubnt.com/ds/usw-flex-xg_ds https://dl.ubnt.com/ds/usw-flex-xg_ds [2] https://dl.ubnt.com/ds/us-xg-6poe_ds https://dl.ubnt.com/ds/us-xg-6poe_ds [3] Plugable 2.5G -https://a.co/d/hjV8LTd https://a.co/d/hjV8LTd
  - wkat4242 4y ago
    For me that's not affordable. I'm using 1GbE 8 port semi-managed switches from TP-Link that cost me €30 a piece 10 years ago (and are still the same price these days). Semi-managed because they only support some features but all I need is VLANs and port mirroring. €300 for 5 is a fortune for me :(
    - nixgeek 4y ago
      Only way I know to get $/port much cheaper than $50-75 is to pick up a used Arista on eBay, there are typically 48-port 10GE models going for ~$400-500. That's what I use to drive 10GE ports where I don't need 802.3bt. There are significant tradeoffs that you may not tolerate: (1) They are very noisy (vs. the Flex XG which is fanless) so if your "Tech" is anywhere near your living space, this may be unworkable; (2) They consume lots of power and also don't do 802.3{af,at,bt} for PoE either, you can solve PoE using an injector (for a few ports), a midspan (for more ports) but note that injectors/midspans usually don't support NBase-T and if you want the combination of 2.5/5/10GE and PoE you might be back to buying a specific switch which can do that; (3) Learning curve is steeper than unmanaged or most semi-managed switches and you likely need to be comfortable with serial consoles to get them configured. With all those and likely more tradeoffs considered, they are ~$10/port!
- glogla 4y ago
  There's a Mikrotik switch with 4 SFP+ 10G ports for ~120 EUR. It would work well with DAC cables in a rack. For use with copper you would need SFP+ modules which are like 50 EUR more each.
  - simoncion 4y ago
    Yeah, I have 4x CRS326-24G-2S+IN (which is 2SFP+ ports and 24 gigabit ethernet ports) that I'm quite pleased with. If you're not going to get direct-attach cables, then check out the stuff that 10gtek sells. In the 6->8+ months that I've been using them, I've not had any trouble with their short-range multi-mode SFP+ modules. Also, you can buy them for a little more than 10USD per module if you buy them in 2->10-packs from Newegg. (And yeah, 10gtek is totally one of those "Direct from Shenzhen" companies that one might worry about buying from. I figured that 10gbit transceivers have been around for quite a while now, so there's no reason they should cost 80USD per, rolled the dice on two separate cheapo 10g transceiver manufacturers, and got lucky when the second (10gtek) turned out to ship a solid product that, like, actually worked and seems to work well.)
    - 3np 4y ago
      We've been very satisfied with the 10gtek SFP+ transceivers and PCIe cards as well so far. Still around 50 each for RJ-45 Cat6a copper though.
- dragontamer 4y ago
  A 1GbE switch with 8 ports needs to be built with 8Gb throughput (Alice talks to Bob at 1GbE AND Bob talks to Alice at 1GbE, and all such combinations). A 1GbE WiFi signal only needs to have 1GbE throughput. What home users need is a 10GbE hub. 10GbE connections between devices but really only one at a time. Switches are overbuilt for home user purposes. I don't think anyone will notice that Alice takes up the channel and that Bob has to wait his turn. In fact, that's how WiFi works and most people don't even notice.
  - vetinari 4y ago
    > A 1GbE switch with 8 ports needs to be built with 8Gb throughput It needs 16 Gb switching capacity; it is duplex. > What home users need is a 10GbE hub. 10GbE connections between devices but really only one at a time. Switches are overbuilt for home user purposes. Not really. While it is true, that most users do not have active multiple devices at the same time, they would pay for this in energy usage. Ethernet, which is what most people would end up with, has pretty high consumption at 10 GbE, to the tune 3-5W per port (times 2, because you need two ends for each cable). It is better to keep them idle when possible; that means switching.
    - ziml77 4y ago
      > It needs 16 Gb switching capacity; it is duplex. I don't think this is the correct terminology. "Switching capacity", as far as I can tell, is the simple addition of the speeds of all the ports. So 16 Gbps switching capacity isn't something it needs, it's something it has simply from the nature of having those 8x 1 GbE full-duplex ports. What we're talking about here that we'd need to not bottleneck, would be called either "non-blocking throughput" or "backplane bandwidth". And even on higher end switches, the switching capacity and backplane bandwidth are usually not equal. I'd be surprised if the same wasn't true for consumer switches (though maybe it is since there's far fewer ports on consumer switches than enterprise switches). (There's also a packets per second metric that determines how much the switch can handle, but I'm assuming that's only going to be a bottleneck if your packet sizes are too low)
      - 4y ago
- wmf 4y ago
  Given that 1G lasted 10-15 years, 2.5G will probably be enough for 20 years.
  - baq 4y ago
    Enough is relative, but the price efficiency sweet spot is very sticky.
  - ziml77 4y ago
    For the most part, I would agree. However it would be nice to have a 10 GbE link between my desktop and NAS for speedier backups/restores.
  - wkat4242 4y ago
    I don't think so, it's already possible to get a 2G fibre uplink here. I'm sure even higher won't be long.
- tracker1 4y ago
  About half way through wiring my home... UV+Shielded Cat 6E (2 runs are outside). I bought a single 8-port 10g switch, which will cover most of the runs, I'm also using a 2.5g switch. My NAS and my desktop are really the only two devices that support 10gb currently, so not a big deal either way.
- sacnoradhq 4y ago
  I dropped moderate coin on a budget 10 GbE PoE+ switch to power some Ubiquiti U6-Enterprise APs (does 6E and > 1GbE). The trick for residential use is resistor hacking the fans to avoid a 1U jet engine in the closet.
  - dtgriscom 4y ago
    Yep: don't want the rack launching.
  - unixhero 4y ago
    Which switch did you chose? Is it noisy?
smcleod 4y ago
Yeah I get that from my U6 Pro APs, the signal doesn't go as far as you'd hope but the speed when you're in the same room is good. Unifi's software leaves a lot to be desired though.
Namidairo 4y ago
Well I remember the U6-LR being run by some people in 2.5G for giggles (requires driver replacement, so not stock firmware), so I wouldn't be surprised if the U6 Pro was capable too.

wkat4242 4y ago

I wish 10GbE switches and NICs would finally come down in price. I'm not interested in investing in 2.5GbE gear and then have to do the same again in a few years :(

nixgeek 4y ago
One of the more affordable options nowadays is the Ubiquiti Flex XG [1] ($299) for a 5-port unit with 4 being 10GE. I’m using lots of their Switch XG 6 PoE [2] ($599) since it can drive 5GE ports on my APs and supports 802.3bt (which is required to power them up without limitations!). Lots of prebuilt PC systems are coming with 2.5GE NICs - “build your own” and it feels like most motherboards are now 2.5GE? Upgrading existing to 2.5GE is pretty cheap (~$30 USD), even via USB adapters [3]. To me, I think it’s fine with NBase-T that the switches be 10GE and the clients negotiate at 2.5GE or 5GE, although I’d note that both Mac Mini, iMac and Mac Studio can now be OEM specified with 10GE NIC for I think $100 additional. [1] https://dl.ubnt.com/ds/usw-flex-xg_ds https://dl.ubnt.com/ds/usw-flex-xg_ds [2] https://dl.ubnt.com/ds/us-xg-6poe_ds https://dl.ubnt.com/ds/us-xg-6poe_ds [3] Plugable 2.5G -https://a.co/d/hjV8LTd https://a.co/d/hjV8LTd
- wkat4242 4y ago
  For me that's not affordable. I'm using 1GbE 8 port semi-managed switches from TP-Link that cost me €30 a piece 10 years ago (and are still the same price these days). Semi-managed because they only support some features but all I need is VLANs and port mirroring. €300 for 5 is a fortune for me :(
  - nixgeek 4y ago
    Only way I know to get $/port much cheaper than $50-75 is to pick up a used Arista on eBay, there are typically 48-port 10GE models going for ~$400-500. That's what I use to drive 10GE ports where I don't need 802.3bt. There are significant tradeoffs that you may not tolerate: (1) They are very noisy (vs. the Flex XG which is fanless) so if your "Tech" is anywhere near your living space, this may be unworkable; (2) They consume lots of power and also don't do 802.3{af,at,bt} for PoE either, you can solve PoE using an injector (for a few ports), a midspan (for more ports) but note that injectors/midspans usually don't support NBase-T and if you want the combination of 2.5/5/10GE and PoE you might be back to buying a specific switch which can do that; (3) Learning curve is steeper than unmanaged or most semi-managed switches and you likely need to be comfortable with serial consoles to get them configured. With all those and likely more tradeoffs considered, they are ~$10/port!
glogla 4y ago
There's a Mikrotik switch with 4 SFP+ 10G ports for ~120 EUR. It would work well with DAC cables in a rack. For use with copper you would need SFP+ modules which are like 50 EUR more each.
- simoncion 4y ago
  Yeah, I have 4x CRS326-24G-2S+IN (which is 2SFP+ ports and 24 gigabit ethernet ports) that I'm quite pleased with. If you're not going to get direct-attach cables, then check out the stuff that 10gtek sells. In the 6->8+ months that I've been using them, I've not had any trouble with their short-range multi-mode SFP+ modules. Also, you can buy them for a little more than 10USD per module if you buy them in 2->10-packs from Newegg. (And yeah, 10gtek is totally one of those "Direct from Shenzhen" companies that one might worry about buying from. I figured that 10gbit transceivers have been around for quite a while now, so there's no reason they should cost 80USD per, rolled the dice on two separate cheapo 10g transceiver manufacturers, and got lucky when the second (10gtek) turned out to ship a solid product that, like, actually worked and seems to work well.)
  - 3np 4y ago
    We've been very satisfied with the 10gtek SFP+ transceivers and PCIe cards as well so far. Still around 50 each for RJ-45 Cat6a copper though.
dragontamer 4y ago
A 1GbE switch with 8 ports needs to be built with 8Gb throughput (Alice talks to Bob at 1GbE AND Bob talks to Alice at 1GbE, and all such combinations). A 1GbE WiFi signal only needs to have 1GbE throughput. What home users need is a 10GbE hub. 10GbE connections between devices but really only one at a time. Switches are overbuilt for home user purposes. I don't think anyone will notice that Alice takes up the channel and that Bob has to wait his turn. In fact, that's how WiFi works and most people don't even notice.
- vetinari 4y ago
  > A 1GbE switch with 8 ports needs to be built with 8Gb throughput It needs 16 Gb switching capacity; it is duplex. > What home users need is a 10GbE hub. 10GbE connections between devices but really only one at a time. Switches are overbuilt for home user purposes. Not really. While it is true, that most users do not have active multiple devices at the same time, they would pay for this in energy usage. Ethernet, which is what most people would end up with, has pretty high consumption at 10 GbE, to the tune 3-5W per port (times 2, because you need two ends for each cable). It is better to keep them idle when possible; that means switching.
  - ziml77 4y ago
    > It needs 16 Gb switching capacity; it is duplex. I don't think this is the correct terminology. "Switching capacity", as far as I can tell, is the simple addition of the speeds of all the ports. So 16 Gbps switching capacity isn't something it needs, it's something it has simply from the nature of having those 8x 1 GbE full-duplex ports. What we're talking about here that we'd need to not bottleneck, would be called either "non-blocking throughput" or "backplane bandwidth". And even on higher end switches, the switching capacity and backplane bandwidth are usually not equal. I'd be surprised if the same wasn't true for consumer switches (though maybe it is since there's far fewer ports on consumer switches than enterprise switches). (There's also a packets per second metric that determines how much the switch can handle, but I'm assuming that's only going to be a bottleneck if your packet sizes are too low)
    - 4y ago
wmf 4y ago
Given that 1G lasted 10-15 years, 2.5G will probably be enough for 20 years.
- baq 4y ago
  Enough is relative, but the price efficiency sweet spot is very sticky.
- ziml77 4y ago
  For the most part, I would agree. However it would be nice to have a 10 GbE link between my desktop and NAS for speedier backups/restores.
- wkat4242 4y ago
  I don't think so, it's already possible to get a 2G fibre uplink here. I'm sure even higher won't be long.
tracker1 4y ago
About half way through wiring my home... UV+Shielded Cat 6E (2 runs are outside). I bought a single 8-port 10g switch, which will cover most of the runs, I'm also using a 2.5g switch. My NAS and my desktop are really the only two devices that support 10gb currently, so not a big deal either way.
sacnoradhq 4y ago
I dropped moderate coin on a budget 10 GbE PoE+ switch to power some Ubiquiti U6-Enterprise APs (does 6E and > 1GbE). The trick for residential use is resistor hacking the fans to avoid a 1U jet engine in the closet.
- dtgriscom 4y ago
  Yep: don't want the rack launching.
- unixhero 4y ago
  Which switch did you chose? Is it noisy?

smcleod 4y ago

Yeah I get that from my U6 Pro APs, the signal doesn't go as far as you'd hope but the speed when you're in the same room is good. Unifi's software leaves a lot to be desired though.

Namidairo 4y ago

Well I remember the U6-LR being run by some people in 2.5G for giggles (requires driver replacement, so not stock firmware), so I wouldn't be surprised if the U6 Pro was capable too.