4 ms·

I have run the numbers and with proper insulation and lower sq footage it is completely practical. That recommendation is for people with the money to do it, w

I have run the numbers and with proper insulation and lower sq footage it is completely practical. That recommendation is for people with the money to do it, which is most of us here. I was replying to someone talking about most “rural” people and extended the reply to be relevant to people here. Given I sleep most nights in a hammock in woods backpacking and travel around nonstop, and have no trouble in sub-zero wilderness, I have definitely opted out of housing and may or may not know something about what I’m talking about. Believe it or not, people with ethics and willpower to follow through still exist. I have opted out of housing and opted out of having children, because the housing situation is unconscionable and refuse to participate in it (nor will I enrich people participating in it by paying their outrageous rates). I would never bring a child into this world as it is and where its going, so that is an easy one.

mindslight 4y ago
> Given I sleep most nights in a hammock in woods backpacking and travel around nonstop, and have no trouble in sub-zero wilderness, I have definitely opted out of housing Okay, I do agree this qualifies as opting out of the housing market. > Believe it or not, people with ethics and willpower to follow through still exist Sure. I'm there myself on a few topics, and have lived them for quite some time. But you need to understand that this puts you at odds with 99% of society, and as such your example isn't going to be found as actionable advice by the sheer majority of people - even people who agree with you 90% of the way. Would you mind sharing your numbers? If I just spitball with a 10kBTU/hr design load, a heat pump COP of 3, and assume that your heating requirements are entirely taken care of by that design load for 8 hours at night, that's still like 3 Powerwalls to last 3 nights. I'd say there are better ways to spend those resources, especially considering that batteries wear out like everything else.
- survirtual 4y ago
  I’d have to find my notes on the topic, but if memory serves for the results, I was targeting 200kWh of battery with a ~1000sqft space. I can’t recall my calculations on the number of panels because I was later working on another design for mobile use with my car, but I do remember it being around $20k-$30k in panels alone to do what I wanted. Panel efficiency and price has gone down since then, so I would expect that price to be lower now. I wanted enough generation to simultaneously charge two EVs as well as be capable of heating a space. I was planning on doing all the labor myself so that is not in the numbers for cost. All things told I was prepared to spend around $75k on electrical to make this happen in a remote location, which seemed reasonable to me given the capabilities & stability I would get in return. It is not something most people could afford, but most people here on HN probably could which is why I mentioned it.
  - Someone 4y ago
    Did you consider how that would do in a week-long storm that deposits a foot or more of snow on your panels? For emergencies, I think I would put more trust in a low-tech wood burner, moving extra wood in-house whenever there’s a serious storm forecast.
  - mindslight 4y ago
    Well, I apologize for what I originally said because it seems you have seriously run the numbers out. On its own that still seems like a massive amount of battery for a single dwelling, but hard to put into context without other numbers (design heating load, electrical load, atrophy over time, oversized for slower wear, etc) Still, in general it seems like the ultimate design constraint is always low probability events adding up - eg solar generation getting severely cut for a week, due to snow on the panels and cloudy days or hardware failure, coupled with many cold nights in a row. For which a fall back to a more traditional denser energy source (wood or gasoline) that you'd end up using every few years comes in much cheaper than trying to oversize the primary battery storage to handle every long tail event.
selimthegrim 4y ago
It seems like any child you would have would be extremely well prepared for wherever the world is going

mindslight 4y ago

> Given I sleep most nights in a hammock in woods backpacking and travel around nonstop, and have no trouble in sub-zero wilderness, I have definitely opted out of housing Okay, I do agree this qualifies as opting out of the housing market. > Believe it or not, people with ethics and willpower to follow through still exist Sure. I'm there myself on a few topics, and have lived them for quite some time. But you need to understand that this puts you at odds with 99% of society, and as such your example isn't going to be found as actionable advice by the sheer majority of people - even people who agree with you 90% of the way. Would you mind sharing your numbers? If I just spitball with a 10kBTU/hr design load, a heat pump COP of 3, and assume that your heating requirements are entirely taken care of by that design load for 8 hours at night, that's still like 3 Powerwalls to last 3 nights. I'd say there are better ways to spend those resources, especially considering that batteries wear out like everything else.

survirtual 4y ago
I’d have to find my notes on the topic, but if memory serves for the results, I was targeting 200kWh of battery with a ~1000sqft space. I can’t recall my calculations on the number of panels because I was later working on another design for mobile use with my car, but I do remember it being around $20k-$30k in panels alone to do what I wanted. Panel efficiency and price has gone down since then, so I would expect that price to be lower now. I wanted enough generation to simultaneously charge two EVs as well as be capable of heating a space. I was planning on doing all the labor myself so that is not in the numbers for cost. All things told I was prepared to spend around $75k on electrical to make this happen in a remote location, which seemed reasonable to me given the capabilities & stability I would get in return. It is not something most people could afford, but most people here on HN probably could which is why I mentioned it.
- Someone 4y ago
  Did you consider how that would do in a week-long storm that deposits a foot or more of snow on your panels? For emergencies, I think I would put more trust in a low-tech wood burner, moving extra wood in-house whenever there’s a serious storm forecast.
- mindslight 4y ago
  Well, I apologize for what I originally said because it seems you have seriously run the numbers out. On its own that still seems like a massive amount of battery for a single dwelling, but hard to put into context without other numbers (design heating load, electrical load, atrophy over time, oversized for slower wear, etc) Still, in general it seems like the ultimate design constraint is always low probability events adding up - eg solar generation getting severely cut for a week, due to snow on the panels and cloudy days or hardware failure, coupled with many cold nights in a row. For which a fall back to a more traditional denser energy source (wood or gasoline) that you'd end up using every few years comes in much cheaper than trying to oversize the primary battery storage to handle every long tail event.

selimthegrim 4y ago

It seems like any child you would have would be extremely well prepared for wherever the world is going