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People doing unsavoury things to get attention is one thing, but that I find odd how serious it's taken. Some may be "media whoring" or (ab)using the controvers

People doing unsavoury things to get attention is one thing, but that I find odd how serious it's taken. Some may be "media whoring" or (ab)using the controversy to fight out personal grievances, but overwhelming majority of people and organisations supporting this are undoubtedly well-intentioned decent honest folk just wanting to do the right thing. When an argument about history accuracy is countered with "you are marginalizing a black queer junior scientist" – as seems to be happening here – then how is this person not eye-rolled out of the conversation? How can you possibly take someone like that serious? Even if we assume their position is the historically correct one here, these kind of statements are exceedingly toxic and have no place in any serious good-faith conversation.

braingravy 4y ago
It’s those magic words “I am an XYZ…” that prevent any eyes from rolling. Those words provide an untouchability and radioactivity around the speaker that we have yet to integrate into modern discourse. As OP said, the good faith nature of argument is turned on it’s head by identity, not merit, based logic. I disagree with cynicism of the OP however. Many people are just tied up in a movement, without a conniving pathos driving their support. If you look at the historical context identity arguments arrive from, it is very much reactionary to past oppression. And society tolerates reactionary swings for only so long before seeking homeostasis. It is possible (likely, even) that the junior professor behind the vitriol is doubling down due to self preservation. However, I don’t think her supporters are as interested in her self interest so much as they are interested in supporting the movement as a whole. She’s more or less an ideological soldier; yes she may have violated her enemies in atrocious ways, but she is fighting for home team, and thusly retains support regardless of abuse of basic logic. Hopefully we out grow this phase soon because the ignorance inherent in that support does seem culturally toxic.
rep_lodsb 4y ago
From the article: «Several prominent astrophysicists in interviews supported Dr. Oluseyi but declined to talk publicly. “People err on the side of prudence, which is to say they don’t speak up,” Dr. Gates noted.» Not so different from what happened in those bad old days, only the acceptable targets have changed.

braingravy 4y ago

It’s those magic words “I am an XYZ…” that prevent any eyes from rolling. Those words provide an untouchability and radioactivity around the speaker that we have yet to integrate into modern discourse. As OP said, the good faith nature of argument is turned on it’s head by identity, not merit, based logic. I disagree with cynicism of the OP however. Many people are just tied up in a movement, without a conniving pathos driving their support. If you look at the historical context identity arguments arrive from, it is very much reactionary to past oppression. And society tolerates reactionary swings for only so long before seeking homeostasis. It is possible (likely, even) that the junior professor behind the vitriol is doubling down due to self preservation. However, I don’t think her supporters are as interested in her self interest so much as they are interested in supporting the movement as a whole. She’s more or less an ideological soldier; yes she may have violated her enemies in atrocious ways, but she is fighting for home team, and thusly retains support regardless of abuse of basic logic. Hopefully we out grow this phase soon because the ignorance inherent in that support does seem culturally toxic.

rep_lodsb 4y ago

From the article: «Several prominent astrophysicists in interviews supported Dr. Oluseyi but declined to talk publicly. “People err on the side of prudence, which is to say they don’t speak up,” Dr. Gates noted.» Not so different from what happened in those bad old days, only the acceptable targets have changed.