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Not exactly what you’re asking but there’s also a concept of genetic trauma, where some traumas can fundamentally change your offspring. For example, your gran

Not exactly what you’re asking but there’s also a concept of genetic trauma, where some traumas can fundamentally change your offspring. For example, your grandmother from your moms side technically made the egg cells that you were born from. That means that whatever your grandmother was going through could for example pass on all the way down to you.

phkahler 4y ago
>> For example, your grandmother from your moms side technically made the egg cells that you were born from. That can't be right. Grandma gave mom a single cell. Mom's ovaries with grandpa's DNA too produced the egg leading to me. Or is there some element I'm not aware of that make it more like stated above?
- soVeryTired 4y ago
  I guess the egg cell you came from was made inside your grandma when your mom was an embryo in her. So the the cell was technically made inside your grandma’s body.
  - abledon 4y ago
    isn't the mother just providing the nourishment for the fetus to grow inside her? and the fetus itself, takes the nourishment, and actually producing the eggs inside itself? So technically I don't think we can say the grandma is making the eggs directly, but has assisted in the fetus' creation, and then provided the nutrients/environment for the egg creation that the fetus itself makes (which yes, can influence things w/ the generational trauma science coming out...).
    - rolph 4y ago
      mom and dad also supply a half helix [single strand] of DNA, with conservation of state. this passes on the structural features responsible for regulatory configuration
- rolph 4y ago
  epigenetic modulation of penetrance, and/or heritability. environment causes biochemical changes of the state of the DNA. methylation is a common phenomenon. also, vertical transmission of DNA state facilitating transcription factor modulation of constituative expression. this one is a complex concept but is also a common example. sums up to, physical state of DNA can be transferred and conserved, during replication.
- ridgeguy 4y ago
  Look into epigenetic inheritance. This is a mechanism by which environmental factors cause inheritable modulation of genes, which themselves are unchanged. Methylation (attachment of methyl groups) of DNA is one such mechanism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgenerational_epigenetic_inheritance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgenerational_epigenetic_i... https://www.nature.com/articles/s41437-018-0113-y https://www.nature.com/articles/s41437-018-0113-y
  - _dain_ 4y ago
    Yeah but it has absolutely no explanatory power for sociological phenomenon. People want it to be true, but there's just no there there. https://razib.substack.com/p/you-cant-take-it-with-you-straight https://razib.substack.com/p/you-cant-take-it-with-you-strai...
    - ridgeguy 4y ago
      Thanks for this link, it's an interesting and informative post. Gives me an additional PoV to consider.
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      > Yeah but it has absolutely no explanatory power for sociological phenomenon That's a nice broad generality, but it doesn’t seem to be true. For instance, on the specific subject of thw thread, epigenetic changes related to chronic stress have demonstrated to have evidence of both (1) some intergenerational transmissibility, and (2) a role in alcoholism.
- rayiner 4y ago
  It this stage inherited “genetic trauma” is a fringe scientific theory.
  - pja 4y ago
    Epigenetics is not fringe science - you inherit the methylation patterns from your parents' genes. Two people with the same genes can (in principle) have very different methylation patterns & thus differences in gene expression that result in changes in behaviour. None of this is controversial.
    - rayiner 4y ago
      That’s about parent’s environmental exposure affecting gene expression in their children. The notion that this can be passed down over multiple generations, where the parent’s generation wasn’t directly exposed to the environmental conditions, is fringe.
      - dragonwriter 4y ago
        Its not “fringe”, it is demonstrated as a thing which occurs. Some particular multigenerational effects may be controversial, speculative, or even fringe, but that multigenerational epigenetic effects exist is not at all fringe.
        rayiner 4y ago
        Confidently asserting that there is a generalized “concept of genetic trauma” that explains behavioral phenomena, as the poster did above, is not correct. The science on this is extremely limited: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20190326-what-is-epigenetics https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20190326-what-is-epigenet.... And it gets invoked by non-experts to support a lot of fringe assertions.

phkahler 4y ago

>> For example, your grandmother from your moms side technically made the egg cells that you were born from. That can't be right. Grandma gave mom a single cell. Mom's ovaries with grandpa's DNA too produced the egg leading to me. Or is there some element I'm not aware of that make it more like stated above?

soVeryTired 4y ago
I guess the egg cell you came from was made inside your grandma when your mom was an embryo in her. So the the cell was technically made inside your grandma’s body.
- abledon 4y ago
  isn't the mother just providing the nourishment for the fetus to grow inside her? and the fetus itself, takes the nourishment, and actually producing the eggs inside itself? So technically I don't think we can say the grandma is making the eggs directly, but has assisted in the fetus' creation, and then provided the nutrients/environment for the egg creation that the fetus itself makes (which yes, can influence things w/ the generational trauma science coming out...).
  - rolph 4y ago
    mom and dad also supply a half helix [single strand] of DNA, with conservation of state. this passes on the structural features responsible for regulatory configuration
rolph 4y ago
epigenetic modulation of penetrance, and/or heritability. environment causes biochemical changes of the state of the DNA. methylation is a common phenomenon. also, vertical transmission of DNA state facilitating transcription factor modulation of constituative expression. this one is a complex concept but is also a common example. sums up to, physical state of DNA can be transferred and conserved, during replication.
ridgeguy 4y ago
Look into epigenetic inheritance. This is a mechanism by which environmental factors cause inheritable modulation of genes, which themselves are unchanged. Methylation (attachment of methyl groups) of DNA is one such mechanism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgenerational_epigenetic_inheritance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgenerational_epigenetic_i... https://www.nature.com/articles/s41437-018-0113-y https://www.nature.com/articles/s41437-018-0113-y
- _dain_ 4y ago
  Yeah but it has absolutely no explanatory power for sociological phenomenon. People want it to be true, but there's just no there there. https://razib.substack.com/p/you-cant-take-it-with-you-straight https://razib.substack.com/p/you-cant-take-it-with-you-strai...
  - ridgeguy 4y ago
    Thanks for this link, it's an interesting and informative post. Gives me an additional PoV to consider.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > Yeah but it has absolutely no explanatory power for sociological phenomenon That's a nice broad generality, but it doesn’t seem to be true. For instance, on the specific subject of thw thread, epigenetic changes related to chronic stress have demonstrated to have evidence of both (1) some intergenerational transmissibility, and (2) a role in alcoholism.
rayiner 4y ago
It this stage inherited “genetic trauma” is a fringe scientific theory.
- pja 4y ago
  Epigenetics is not fringe science - you inherit the methylation patterns from your parents' genes. Two people with the same genes can (in principle) have very different methylation patterns & thus differences in gene expression that result in changes in behaviour. None of this is controversial.
  - rayiner 4y ago
    That’s about parent’s environmental exposure affecting gene expression in their children. The notion that this can be passed down over multiple generations, where the parent’s generation wasn’t directly exposed to the environmental conditions, is fringe.
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      Its not “fringe”, it is demonstrated as a thing which occurs. Some particular multigenerational effects may be controversial, speculative, or even fringe, but that multigenerational epigenetic effects exist is not at all fringe.
      - rayiner 4y ago
        Confidently asserting that there is a generalized “concept of genetic trauma” that explains behavioral phenomena, as the poster did above, is not correct. The science on this is extremely limited: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20190326-what-is-epigenetics https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20190326-what-is-epigenet.... And it gets invoked by non-experts to support a lot of fringe assertions.