4 ms·

I come from eastern Europe and 150 years ago most of my ancestors were serfs, only a rung or two above chattel slaves on the ladder of human condition. 50 year

I come from eastern Europe and 150 years ago most of my ancestors were serfs, only a rung or two above chattel slaves on the ladder of human condition. 50 years ago a lot of their descendants in the Eastern Bloc countries were probably still in that condition or in the USSR factory worker equivalent.

poulpy123 4y ago
Lol you should learn a bit about the history of these countries. 50 years ago was the seventies. While not as confortable as in the west, its was far to be at the level of serfs.
- smcl 4y ago
  The original quoted statement in GP is a pretty common thing I have seen in younger people in now-prosperous former-communist central/eastern European countries. Minorities being subject to institutional racism in the form of apartheid, redlining and such is completely handwaved away and countered with "we had it bad under communism, but we recovered so why can't they". There are thankfully a growing number who don't think like this, but many simply cannot be convinced and will dismiss your explanations as excuse-making, or try-hard "woke"-ness. Hell, I've even encountered guys here insisting that because they're so non-racist they can use the n-word. I think that many just don't know how widespread, deeply ingrained and recent much of this was - they think there was slavery, a bit of racism hanging around and then (in the USA at least) the civil rights act sorted things out and made everything equal. And that's really similar in nature to the comment you replied to - people have picked up a simplified and wrong version of history of Warsaw Pact countries and they're just a bit ignorant of the truth.
- kspacewalk2 4y ago
  Yes, learn a bit about the history. In the USSR, peasants were essentially serfs. They only got internal passports in the 1960s and 1970s, and without those they could not leave the village without permission. They worked for a state collective farm, most of their pay came in just counting the "labour-days" they contributed - a totally self-containbed, essentially prison-like economic system. So yes, I agree, I originally brought up serfs as being something from 150 years ago, but it was more like 50-60 years ago.
vkou 4y ago
It's true that university-educated intellectuals who have fled Eastern Europe after communism ended have, as a social class, done fairly well for themselves, but have you ever visited the... Less cosmopolitan parts of the former USSR? It's not quite life-on-the-reservation out there, but it's not far from it. They were never any good, and as soon as the planned economy stopped pouring money and work/busy-work into those areas, they all went straight to shit.

poulpy123 4y ago

Lol you should learn a bit about the history of these countries. 50 years ago was the seventies. While not as confortable as in the west, its was far to be at the level of serfs.

smcl 4y ago
The original quoted statement in GP is a pretty common thing I have seen in younger people in now-prosperous former-communist central/eastern European countries. Minorities being subject to institutional racism in the form of apartheid, redlining and such is completely handwaved away and countered with "we had it bad under communism, but we recovered so why can't they". There are thankfully a growing number who don't think like this, but many simply cannot be convinced and will dismiss your explanations as excuse-making, or try-hard "woke"-ness. Hell, I've even encountered guys here insisting that because they're so non-racist they can use the n-word. I think that many just don't know how widespread, deeply ingrained and recent much of this was - they think there was slavery, a bit of racism hanging around and then (in the USA at least) the civil rights act sorted things out and made everything equal. And that's really similar in nature to the comment you replied to - people have picked up a simplified and wrong version of history of Warsaw Pact countries and they're just a bit ignorant of the truth.
kspacewalk2 4y ago
Yes, learn a bit about the history. In the USSR, peasants were essentially serfs. They only got internal passports in the 1960s and 1970s, and without those they could not leave the village without permission. They worked for a state collective farm, most of their pay came in just counting the "labour-days" they contributed - a totally self-containbed, essentially prison-like economic system. So yes, I agree, I originally brought up serfs as being something from 150 years ago, but it was more like 50-60 years ago.

vkou 4y ago

It's true that university-educated intellectuals who have fled Eastern Europe after communism ended have, as a social class, done fairly well for themselves, but have you ever visited the... Less cosmopolitan parts of the former USSR? It's not quite life-on-the-reservation out there, but it's not far from it. They were never any good, and as soon as the planned economy stopped pouring money and work/busy-work into those areas, they all went straight to shit.