4 ms·

So do I but I would not characterize the conservative position on trans individuals that way at all. I think the conservative opposition is more directed at ho

So do I but I would not characterize the conservative position on trans individuals that way at all. I think the conservative opposition is more directed at how early the modern left wants to introduce the concept to children. Primarily in schools and the desire by some on the modern left for educators to have private conversations about the topic with their children without the parent’s knowledge. Also, the notion of government funding any transitional medical procedure is opposed, but that is less a bias agains Trans individuals and more a standard conservative position on any sort of elective medical procedure receiving public funds. There is not a single conservative that I know who cares one iota what a trans adult does, identifies as, or believes about themselves as long as the trans individual isn’t using taxpayer money to make the transition.

DoctorOW 4y ago
The laws being brought into effect by The Party beg to differ. They forbid the use of terms of "gender identity" among others. This is pretty obviously only being enforced against trans individuals. They also have restricted access to gender affirming healthcare even in the private sector.
- kcplate 4y ago
  >They forbid the use of the terms gender identity among others Please cite the laws where this term is legally forbidden to be used. And please don’t give us examples where a government agency that might just use a different term, because that is not the same thing. Pleas give us so e specific laws where it’s use is overtly forbidden. > They also have restricted access to gender affirming healthcare even in the private sector You are making a blanket generalized statement here but how about you give us what “they” are actually restricting and what their argument as to why they are restricting it actually is and why that argument is wrong. Not knowing what specifics you are referring to, but my suspicion is the what is the use of puberty blockers and the who is young children. That would make your statement lack some important nuance. It’s also not necessarily an unusual or even controversial stance for conservatives to act conservatively in regards to supporting novel medical treatments on children. Especially treatments that are even polarizing within medical circles and can have a lifelong impact.
  - DoctorOW 4y ago
    I included more than enough information for anyone with basic reading comprehension to be able to generate their own Google search terms. Laws are public record.
    - kcplate 4y ago
      No offense but it’s lazy to just give partisan generic talking points and tell people to “go Google”. I think the conservative positions that are specific to trans and gender issues seem to center around children. At least from the conversations I have had with conservative friends on the topic that has been the concern they have. If that is not the case, provide something to prove me wrong. You do your argument a disservice if you cannot provide depth beyond generics.
      - roflyear 4y ago
        You have not given any sources in your comments, this person is just operating in the mode you set them up for. Where is the left pushing these policies on children? Is there any substance to your claims?
        kcplate 4y ago
        I made no claims other than conversations I have had with conservatives that I know personally and am not arguing the merits of the policies for or against.
        roflyear 4y ago
        "I think the conservative opposition is more directed at how early the modern left wants to introduce the concept to children"
        kcplate 4y ago
        Do you really think that needed sources cited? Literally the most publicly prominent piece of legislation that was specifically passed by the GOP on this topic was in Florida last year with HB 1557. That legislation specifically created public education prohibitions about the topic with children aged 6 to 10 and had parental notification rights in it as well. The left opposed it vehemently and it was literally all over the news for months in the spring. Disney even fired a CEO over the fallout caused from his choice to publicly voice opposition to it. For what it’s worth, here is your source, if you can think of a more public piece of legislation than this that expands prohibitions for trans topics beyond children, post it. https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557/BillText/er/PDF https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557/BillText/er/...
roflyear 4y ago
> Primarily in schools and the desire by some on the modern left for educators to have private conversations about the topic with their children without the parent’s knowledge. You'll have to substantiate this, because I'm not aware of "the left" pushing these policies. If there isn't a "problem" with trans people, what's wrong with kids knowing about them, similar to gay people? I'm not saying educators should say "hey, did you consider if you're really a boy?!?!" but avoiding the topic altogether, which is what it seems like the right wants to do (have you looked up "trans social contagion" at any time? this talk is EVERYWHERE). They think there is a problem, and it is only natural to not want problems to exist. There is a gradient, but most conservatives, in my view, do not want trans people to be a thing - they think there is a problem with it. I am aware of people in my circles thinking trans people is a disease or a medical condition and want it to go away. > There is not a single conservative that I know who cares one iota what a trans adult does, identifies as, or believes about themselves Does this extend to them using bathrooms, or whatever, as well as the "women need their own private spaces!!" narrative? I'd certainly say that caring what bathroom a person uses falls in the "caring about what they do" category.
- tguto 4y ago
  Some might be genuinely trans, but others are just making a mockery of women and women's issues, e.g. https://twitter.com/LabelFreeBrands/status/1603177902291685377 https://twitter.com/LabelFreeBrands/status/16031779022916853... https://twitter.com/WomenReadWomen/status/1453760908778356736 https://twitter.com/WomenReadWomen/status/145376090877835673... https://twitter.com/MYST_MX9/status/1607401871739879429 https://twitter.com/MYST_MX9/status/1607401871739879429 Why should anyone support these men and their misogyny? Why should they be allowed into any space for women? It's basically equivalent to white men wearing blackface in terms of offensiveness, yet we're expected to go along with the pretence that all of these guys are women. If the trans movement wants to gain support across the board, they need some serious gatekeeping to exclude these type of men from parasiting the wider activism.
  - roflyear 4y ago
    Uh, how is this related to school policies? I don't see things through the same lens you do, so it would be helpful if you could explain it to me. > It's basically equivalent to white men wearing blackface in terms of offensiveness, yet we're expected to go along with the pretence that these guys are women. You have to break this down for me! Do you think this applies to all trans people? Or just trans people who want to be stars on social media by acting like everyone else does on social media? I think it is often cringe too, but I don't think it's b/c they are trans, I just think social media is cringe. Maybe your problem is partially with social media? Like, maybe you're not familiar - but the guy whistlindiesel was constantly talking about how he's going to go to Hawaii and drive on sacred land there as a joke b/c it pisses off Hawaiians. That was super cringe, but I didn't take his views and suggest that all white dudes, or white conservatives, or [WHATEVER] are supporting or pushing similar policies (tho my younger cousins watch this shit and they do learn from him and seem to lack maturity b/c of this). Great conversation about this here, interesting perspective, and I think we can BOTH agree with the "social media influencers want attention" take! https://www.reddit.com/r/CasualConversation/comments/ozsska/so_im_from_hawaii_and_i_just_want_to_share/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CasualConversation/comments/ozsska/... BTW men taking hormones DO get cramps, believe it or not! This is documented: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/can-trans-women-get-periods https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/can-trans-women-ge... Trump has had a lot of controversial guests at the WH has well, remember!
fennecfoxy 4y ago
And only because like religious circles, conservative circles need to be the _only_ ones to have private conversations with their children; how else are they to be brainwashed into hating everyone that isn't the same colour/sexuality/traditional gender roles like them and their mammy & daddy and grandpappy & grand-mama going back generations.

DoctorOW 4y ago

The laws being brought into effect by The Party beg to differ. They forbid the use of terms of "gender identity" among others. This is pretty obviously only being enforced against trans individuals. They also have restricted access to gender affirming healthcare even in the private sector.

kcplate 4y ago
>They forbid the use of the terms gender identity among others Please cite the laws where this term is legally forbidden to be used. And please don’t give us examples where a government agency that might just use a different term, because that is not the same thing. Pleas give us so e specific laws where it’s use is overtly forbidden. > They also have restricted access to gender affirming healthcare even in the private sector You are making a blanket generalized statement here but how about you give us what “they” are actually restricting and what their argument as to why they are restricting it actually is and why that argument is wrong. Not knowing what specifics you are referring to, but my suspicion is the what is the use of puberty blockers and the who is young children. That would make your statement lack some important nuance. It’s also not necessarily an unusual or even controversial stance for conservatives to act conservatively in regards to supporting novel medical treatments on children. Especially treatments that are even polarizing within medical circles and can have a lifelong impact.
- DoctorOW 4y ago
  I included more than enough information for anyone with basic reading comprehension to be able to generate their own Google search terms. Laws are public record.
  - kcplate 4y ago
    No offense but it’s lazy to just give partisan generic talking points and tell people to “go Google”. I think the conservative positions that are specific to trans and gender issues seem to center around children. At least from the conversations I have had with conservative friends on the topic that has been the concern they have. If that is not the case, provide something to prove me wrong. You do your argument a disservice if you cannot provide depth beyond generics.
    - roflyear 4y ago
      You have not given any sources in your comments, this person is just operating in the mode you set them up for. Where is the left pushing these policies on children? Is there any substance to your claims?
      - kcplate 4y ago
        I made no claims other than conversations I have had with conservatives that I know personally and am not arguing the merits of the policies for or against.
        roflyear 4y ago
        "I think the conservative opposition is more directed at how early the modern left wants to introduce the concept to children"
        kcplate 4y ago
        Do you really think that needed sources cited? Literally the most publicly prominent piece of legislation that was specifically passed by the GOP on this topic was in Florida last year with HB 1557. That legislation specifically created public education prohibitions about the topic with children aged 6 to 10 and had parental notification rights in it as well. The left opposed it vehemently and it was literally all over the news for months in the spring. Disney even fired a CEO over the fallout caused from his choice to publicly voice opposition to it. For what it’s worth, here is your source, if you can think of a more public piece of legislation than this that expands prohibitions for trans topics beyond children, post it. https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557/BillText/er/PDF https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557/BillText/er/...

roflyear 4y ago

> Primarily in schools and the desire by some on the modern left for educators to have private conversations about the topic with their children without the parent’s knowledge. You'll have to substantiate this, because I'm not aware of "the left" pushing these policies. If there isn't a "problem" with trans people, what's wrong with kids knowing about them, similar to gay people? I'm not saying educators should say "hey, did you consider if you're really a boy?!?!" but avoiding the topic altogether, which is what it seems like the right wants to do (have you looked up "trans social contagion" at any time? this talk is EVERYWHERE). They think there is a problem, and it is only natural to not want problems to exist. There is a gradient, but most conservatives, in my view, do not want trans people to be a thing - they think there is a problem with it. I am aware of people in my circles thinking trans people is a disease or a medical condition and want it to go away. > There is not a single conservative that I know who cares one iota what a trans adult does, identifies as, or believes about themselves Does this extend to them using bathrooms, or whatever, as well as the "women need their own private spaces!!" narrative? I'd certainly say that caring what bathroom a person uses falls in the "caring about what they do" category.

tguto 4y ago
Some might be genuinely trans, but others are just making a mockery of women and women's issues, e.g. https://twitter.com/LabelFreeBrands/status/1603177902291685377 https://twitter.com/LabelFreeBrands/status/16031779022916853... https://twitter.com/WomenReadWomen/status/1453760908778356736 https://twitter.com/WomenReadWomen/status/145376090877835673... https://twitter.com/MYST_MX9/status/1607401871739879429 https://twitter.com/MYST_MX9/status/1607401871739879429 Why should anyone support these men and their misogyny? Why should they be allowed into any space for women? It's basically equivalent to white men wearing blackface in terms of offensiveness, yet we're expected to go along with the pretence that all of these guys are women. If the trans movement wants to gain support across the board, they need some serious gatekeeping to exclude these type of men from parasiting the wider activism.
- roflyear 4y ago
  Uh, how is this related to school policies? I don't see things through the same lens you do, so it would be helpful if you could explain it to me. > It's basically equivalent to white men wearing blackface in terms of offensiveness, yet we're expected to go along with the pretence that these guys are women. You have to break this down for me! Do you think this applies to all trans people? Or just trans people who want to be stars on social media by acting like everyone else does on social media? I think it is often cringe too, but I don't think it's b/c they are trans, I just think social media is cringe. Maybe your problem is partially with social media? Like, maybe you're not familiar - but the guy whistlindiesel was constantly talking about how he's going to go to Hawaii and drive on sacred land there as a joke b/c it pisses off Hawaiians. That was super cringe, but I didn't take his views and suggest that all white dudes, or white conservatives, or [WHATEVER] are supporting or pushing similar policies (tho my younger cousins watch this shit and they do learn from him and seem to lack maturity b/c of this). Great conversation about this here, interesting perspective, and I think we can BOTH agree with the "social media influencers want attention" take! https://www.reddit.com/r/CasualConversation/comments/ozsska/so_im_from_hawaii_and_i_just_want_to_share/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CasualConversation/comments/ozsska/... BTW men taking hormones DO get cramps, believe it or not! This is documented: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/can-trans-women-get-periods https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/can-trans-women-ge... Trump has had a lot of controversial guests at the WH has well, remember!

fennecfoxy 4y ago

And only because like religious circles, conservative circles need to be the _only_ ones to have private conversations with their children; how else are they to be brainwashed into hating everyone that isn't the same colour/sexuality/traditional gender roles like them and their mammy & daddy and grandpappy & grand-mama going back generations.