5 ms·

The right does not want to make the picking of pronouns illegal. Where did you get that? Nobody cares what annyone identifies as. The right’s position is that

The right does not want to make the picking of pronouns illegal. Where did you get that? Nobody cares what annyone identifies as. The right’s position is that you are free to identify however you wish, but you still have to abide by certain things based on your biological birth when it directly affects other people. Right or wrong, don’t create a straw man.

roflyear 4y ago
I have a large conservative circle. That isn't their stance. They do not want trans people to exist at all.
- sixQuarks 4y ago
  What do you mean by they don't want trans people to exist at all? Same way trans people do not want conservatives to exist at all, or something more sinister? Because I have many conservative friends and they may not agree with different life choices, but that doesn't mean they won't tolerate it. If you have a circle of people who want to eradicate trans people, I would not label them as conservatives first, they are psychopaths and I would not let them in my circle.
  - roflyear 4y ago
    Thanks for asking me to clarify. I mean it in the literal sense: they want a world without trans people. I'm not interested really in getting into my subjective views on the harm I believe that leads to, but Ill answer and say no, I don't believe very many people want direct violence against trans people. I don't know if you can group trans people into a political category where you can say they all don't want conservatives to exist??? I literally know trans conservatives who voted for trump (you'd not be able to tell they are trans).
  - rented_mule 4y ago
    > they may not agree with different life choices I don't know what you intended, but phrasing it that way is a literal denial of the existence of trans people. Transitioning is a realization of who the person has always been, not a "life choice" to suddenly be someone different. Denying the existence of something and not wanting something to exist are not exactly the same thing, but there is a lot of overlap. Again, I don't know what you intended, but many people pointedly use the word "choice" around this topic. Your phrase would be more accurate if it said "they may not agree with different life experiences" or "they may not agree with different lived realities". Those are decidedly more cutting than the phrasing you used.
    - sixQuarks 4y ago
      Phrasing it the way you are is a literal denial of the existence of conservative people, because having conservative viewpoints is a realization of who the person has always been, not a life choice.
      - roflyear 4y ago
        The person has always been a trans person. Like a gay person has always been gay. If conservatives don't believe that, them being wrong isn't a denial that conservatives exist.
  - DoctorOW 4y ago
    If you are not familiar with the local/state laws going into effect which legislate official identification and presentation in ways that impact trans people, they're particularly easy to Google. The differences between the positions of cannot exist in public view and cannot exist at all are insignificant in practice.
    - AngriestLettuce 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - DoctorOW 4y ago
        No. In practice they are the same.
        AngriestLettuce 4y ago
        Yes. They are not the same, and you know this. These social pressure tactics do little but turn people against your cause at this point. The difference is in intent. While it is possible they look the same from the outside, one intends to protect what they love, while the other intends to hurt what it hates. Making these people out to be the same serves to turn people who might be convinced to help you into your worst enemies instead. No one likes being made out to be a bad person simply for seeking to protect what is important to them. The two are not the same, and too many people screeching that they are, and that conservatives all hate trans people is the issue in the first place. It's weird.
        roflyear 4y ago
        Can you restate? Are you saying "cannot exist in public view" and "cannot exist in practice" are not really the same? Which one intends to protect what they love, and what is "what they love?" > conservatives all hate trans people Not all conservatives, but lots of them don't want trans people to exist.
        4y ago
- kcplate 4y ago
  So do I but I would not characterize the conservative position on trans individuals that way at all. I think the conservative opposition is more directed at how early the modern left wants to introduce the concept to children. Primarily in schools and the desire by some on the modern left for educators to have private conversations about the topic with their children without the parent’s knowledge. Also, the notion of government funding any transitional medical procedure is opposed, but that is less a bias agains Trans individuals and more a standard conservative position on any sort of elective medical procedure receiving public funds. There is not a single conservative that I know who cares one iota what a trans adult does, identifies as, or believes about themselves as long as the trans individual isn’t using taxpayer money to make the transition.
  - DoctorOW 4y ago
    The laws being brought into effect by The Party beg to differ. They forbid the use of terms of "gender identity" among others. This is pretty obviously only being enforced against trans individuals. They also have restricted access to gender affirming healthcare even in the private sector.
    - kcplate 4y ago
      >They forbid the use of the terms gender identity among others Please cite the laws where this term is legally forbidden to be used. And please don’t give us examples where a government agency that might just use a different term, because that is not the same thing. Pleas give us so e specific laws where it’s use is overtly forbidden. > They also have restricted access to gender affirming healthcare even in the private sector You are making a blanket generalized statement here but how about you give us what “they” are actually restricting and what their argument as to why they are restricting it actually is and why that argument is wrong. Not knowing what specifics you are referring to, but my suspicion is the what is the use of puberty blockers and the who is young children. That would make your statement lack some important nuance. It’s also not necessarily an unusual or even controversial stance for conservatives to act conservatively in regards to supporting novel medical treatments on children. Especially treatments that are even polarizing within medical circles and can have a lifelong impact.

roflyear 4y ago

I have a large conservative circle. That isn't their stance. They do not want trans people to exist at all.

sixQuarks 4y ago
What do you mean by they don't want trans people to exist at all? Same way trans people do not want conservatives to exist at all, or something more sinister? Because I have many conservative friends and they may not agree with different life choices, but that doesn't mean they won't tolerate it. If you have a circle of people who want to eradicate trans people, I would not label them as conservatives first, they are psychopaths and I would not let them in my circle.
- roflyear 4y ago
  Thanks for asking me to clarify. I mean it in the literal sense: they want a world without trans people. I'm not interested really in getting into my subjective views on the harm I believe that leads to, but Ill answer and say no, I don't believe very many people want direct violence against trans people. I don't know if you can group trans people into a political category where you can say they all don't want conservatives to exist??? I literally know trans conservatives who voted for trump (you'd not be able to tell they are trans).
- rented_mule 4y ago
  > they may not agree with different life choices I don't know what you intended, but phrasing it that way is a literal denial of the existence of trans people. Transitioning is a realization of who the person has always been, not a "life choice" to suddenly be someone different. Denying the existence of something and not wanting something to exist are not exactly the same thing, but there is a lot of overlap. Again, I don't know what you intended, but many people pointedly use the word "choice" around this topic. Your phrase would be more accurate if it said "they may not agree with different life experiences" or "they may not agree with different lived realities". Those are decidedly more cutting than the phrasing you used.
  - sixQuarks 4y ago
    Phrasing it the way you are is a literal denial of the existence of conservative people, because having conservative viewpoints is a realization of who the person has always been, not a life choice.
    - roflyear 4y ago
      The person has always been a trans person. Like a gay person has always been gay. If conservatives don't believe that, them being wrong isn't a denial that conservatives exist.
- DoctorOW 4y ago
  If you are not familiar with the local/state laws going into effect which legislate official identification and presentation in ways that impact trans people, they're particularly easy to Google. The differences between the positions of cannot exist in public view and cannot exist at all are insignificant in practice.
  - AngriestLettuce 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - DoctorOW 4y ago
      No. In practice they are the same.
      - AngriestLettuce 4y ago
        Yes. They are not the same, and you know this. These social pressure tactics do little but turn people against your cause at this point. The difference is in intent. While it is possible they look the same from the outside, one intends to protect what they love, while the other intends to hurt what it hates. Making these people out to be the same serves to turn people who might be convinced to help you into your worst enemies instead. No one likes being made out to be a bad person simply for seeking to protect what is important to them. The two are not the same, and too many people screeching that they are, and that conservatives all hate trans people is the issue in the first place. It's weird.
        roflyear 4y ago
        Can you restate? Are you saying "cannot exist in public view" and "cannot exist in practice" are not really the same? Which one intends to protect what they love, and what is "what they love?" > conservatives all hate trans people Not all conservatives, but lots of them don't want trans people to exist.
        4y ago
kcplate 4y ago
So do I but I would not characterize the conservative position on trans individuals that way at all. I think the conservative opposition is more directed at how early the modern left wants to introduce the concept to children. Primarily in schools and the desire by some on the modern left for educators to have private conversations about the topic with their children without the parent’s knowledge. Also, the notion of government funding any transitional medical procedure is opposed, but that is less a bias agains Trans individuals and more a standard conservative position on any sort of elective medical procedure receiving public funds. There is not a single conservative that I know who cares one iota what a trans adult does, identifies as, or believes about themselves as long as the trans individual isn’t using taxpayer money to make the transition.
- DoctorOW 4y ago
  The laws being brought into effect by The Party beg to differ. They forbid the use of terms of "gender identity" among others. This is pretty obviously only being enforced against trans individuals. They also have restricted access to gender affirming healthcare even in the private sector.
  - kcplate 4y ago
    >They forbid the use of the terms gender identity among others Please cite the laws where this term is legally forbidden to be used. And please don’t give us examples where a government agency that might just use a different term, because that is not the same thing. Pleas give us so e specific laws where it’s use is overtly forbidden. > They also have restricted access to gender affirming healthcare even in the private sector You are making a blanket generalized statement here but how about you give us what “they” are actually restricting and what their argument as to why they are restricting it actually is and why that argument is wrong. Not knowing what specifics you are referring to, but my suspicion is the what is the use of puberty blockers and the who is young children. That would make your statement lack some important nuance. It’s also not necessarily an unusual or even controversial stance for conservatives to act conservatively in regards to supporting novel medical treatments on children. Especially treatments that are even polarizing within medical circles and can have a lifelong impact.