4 ms·

Dorian Abbot is a perfect example of why you're wrong. He opposes affirmative action and as a result got cancelled at MIT for a _completely_ unrelated talk abo

Dorian Abbot is a perfect example of why you're wrong. He opposes affirmative action and as a result got cancelled at MIT for a _completely_ unrelated talk about climate and life on other planets. If you yourself disagree with him and do not want to participate in the talk, fine. don't watch it, don't listen to it, don't attend it, and use YOUR speech to recommend others do the same. What happened here is that he got cancelled so that those who _WANTED_ to associate no longer could. This is not about association, and it's not about speech, it's about preventing others from hearing and it's about harming him for daring to have that opinion. When the cancel culture stops happening, THEN I'll start believing when people say the things you're trying to say here. Not before.

komali2 4y ago
I looked into this Dorian person, and it appears we have different definitions of "cancelled," as this person did give a talk at MIT, at a different building than originally planned. It seems this person has made a handsome life being a spokesperson for conservative denial of systemic racism in America, I don't see someone actually harmed or "cancelled." Also it sounds like students did exactly what MIT approves: they protested. For whatever reason the University decided then to move the venue. What exactly is the issue you have with this scenario?
- P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - komali2 4y ago
    What does cancelled mean? Who's in your in group? Any communists? Anybody that attended a black lives matter protest? Check his Twitter, he calls for color blindness, denies that black students face any different obstacles than white ones, etc.
    - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - jensensbutton 4y ago
        gp asked specifically what "cancelled" means. You seem to be trying to avoid providing any definition and instead creating and attacking straw men based on your imagination of a leftist argument. Get a grip then respond.
        P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
        And I suppose if I felt it was honestly asked I might respond to it.
        komali2 4y ago
        In our various conversations on this thread, you're continually posting in bad faith, because I and a few others aren't granting you your base assumptions. I've found it to be both enlightening and effective in these kinds of conversations to make sure to ask very simple questions about what we're really talking about. Why? Because for example I often have people say to my face that the american democrat party is a communist party. Hah. Or, more grim: that queer people are groomers. Terrifying. So it's an entirely fair question to ask you what you mean by "cancelled." I genuinely don't know. You said a professor was cancelled - but the professor was able to give a speech at the same university. I don't understand! I really don't! What does "cancelled" really mean? Because if you can't answer that, maybe this thing you fear doesn't actually exist. Maybe you really are just functioning as a reactionary enforcer of status quo and lashing out against actual counter-cultural speech, against arguments that are actually being "cancelled" by you and those that support your position. The same for gender. You said to me on another comment, that "you aren't talking about gender identity," but you earlier in the same chain said "care givers tend to be women." Yet it's as obvious to me that that is a circular definition of a gender completely detached from biological markers ("women are caregivers") as it is to you that men are big masculine lumberjacks. So instead of letting you get away with, I don't know, some kind of assumptive bias? Begging the question? Argument to tradition? Instead I'm simply asking you to demonstrate why it's acceptable to assume "care givers tend to be women." Personally as a man I reject this because it leads to pretty shitty outcomes like me being given stink eye from people when I'm "alone" at a children's playground... until my kid runs up to me. To give a concrete example. Not to mention I reject that "race car drivers tend to be men" for the obvious nod towards the very annoying stereotype that women are worse drivers than men. Ugh. I'll give you enough good faith to assume that was unintentional on your part. TLDR you presented a presumptive conservative position and got reactionary when asked, by different people (annoyance at me is normal, I am an annoying person), very simple questions about terms setting and definitions. So? What's up with your ideas? They don't stand to scrutiny? I mean you're doing what your position tends to accuse my position of, which is for me why I put my foot down so damn hard in conversations like this: you're acting offended, you're responding rudely and, frankly, irrationally, and straight up I don't see any rhetorical, logical, ethical, deductive, or evidential basis for the broad vaguely conservative smear I find your belief system to be.

komali2 4y ago

I looked into this Dorian person, and it appears we have different definitions of "cancelled," as this person did give a talk at MIT, at a different building than originally planned. It seems this person has made a handsome life being a spokesperson for conservative denial of systemic racism in America, I don't see someone actually harmed or "cancelled." Also it sounds like students did exactly what MIT approves: they protested. For whatever reason the University decided then to move the venue. What exactly is the issue you have with this scenario?

P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
[flagged]
- komali2 4y ago
  What does cancelled mean? Who's in your in group? Any communists? Anybody that attended a black lives matter protest? Check his Twitter, he calls for color blindness, denies that black students face any different obstacles than white ones, etc.
  - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - jensensbutton 4y ago
      gp asked specifically what "cancelled" means. You seem to be trying to avoid providing any definition and instead creating and attacking straw men based on your imagination of a leftist argument. Get a grip then respond.
      - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
        And I suppose if I felt it was honestly asked I might respond to it.
        komali2 4y ago
        In our various conversations on this thread, you're continually posting in bad faith, because I and a few others aren't granting you your base assumptions. I've found it to be both enlightening and effective in these kinds of conversations to make sure to ask very simple questions about what we're really talking about. Why? Because for example I often have people say to my face that the american democrat party is a communist party. Hah. Or, more grim: that queer people are groomers. Terrifying. So it's an entirely fair question to ask you what you mean by "cancelled." I genuinely don't know. You said a professor was cancelled - but the professor was able to give a speech at the same university. I don't understand! I really don't! What does "cancelled" really mean? Because if you can't answer that, maybe this thing you fear doesn't actually exist. Maybe you really are just functioning as a reactionary enforcer of status quo and lashing out against actual counter-cultural speech, against arguments that are actually being "cancelled" by you and those that support your position. The same for gender. You said to me on another comment, that "you aren't talking about gender identity," but you earlier in the same chain said "care givers tend to be women." Yet it's as obvious to me that that is a circular definition of a gender completely detached from biological markers ("women are caregivers") as it is to you that men are big masculine lumberjacks. So instead of letting you get away with, I don't know, some kind of assumptive bias? Begging the question? Argument to tradition? Instead I'm simply asking you to demonstrate why it's acceptable to assume "care givers tend to be women." Personally as a man I reject this because it leads to pretty shitty outcomes like me being given stink eye from people when I'm "alone" at a children's playground... until my kid runs up to me. To give a concrete example. Not to mention I reject that "race car drivers tend to be men" for the obvious nod towards the very annoying stereotype that women are worse drivers than men. Ugh. I'll give you enough good faith to assume that was unintentional on your part. TLDR you presented a presumptive conservative position and got reactionary when asked, by different people (annoyance at me is normal, I am an annoying person), very simple questions about terms setting and definitions. So? What's up with your ideas? They don't stand to scrutiny? I mean you're doing what your position tends to accuse my position of, which is for me why I put my foot down so damn hard in conversations like this: you're acting offended, you're responding rudely and, frankly, irrationally, and straight up I don't see any rhetorical, logical, ethical, deductive, or evidential basis for the broad vaguely conservative smear I find your belief system to be.