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It might be illegal. Some US states (and my province in Canada) have labour laws where your employer generally cannot require you to pay expenses for equipment

by retrac 4y ago

It might be illegal. Some US states (and my province in Canada) have labour laws where your employer generally cannot require you to pay expenses for equipment necessary to do the job. (Someone who brings their equipment to do the job is a contractor, not an employee.) Many jurisdictions also require that required job-specific training be paid. This issue came up a lot with work from home during the pandemic. Did your power bill go up from running your employer-provided hardware at home? In some jurisdictions, they have to compensate you even for that.

t0mas88 4y ago
These employees are all contractors on paper. Probably to get around the rules you mention.
- retrac 4y ago
  Such machinations often do not hold up, legally. If the employer simply declaring that the employee is a contractor made them a contractor, all minimum wage employees would be contractors, probably. There's usually a definition or test, either in statute or case law. In my jurisdiction, whether you have a boss or supervisor is a major factor. Contractors are given a specific task to complete and then they go do it. If you're getting daily monitoring or tasks assigned throughout the day, you're probably an employee. Like with not paying minimum wage or illegal deductions, employers often get away with it. The power imbalance is very large for such workers, and even when enforced the fines are often just a cost of doing business. In Ontario, Canada there's a couple billion dollars in unpaid wages every year, and hundreds of investigations for wilful wage nonpayment by managers, yet there has been exactly one jail sentence for it, in the last twenty years. With odds like that, I might steal too!
  - joe-collins 4y ago
    And then there's Uber et al. . . .
  - nikanj 4y ago
    The test is "who can afford more lawyers"
    - Spoom 4y ago
      FWIW you can appeal a contractor / employee designation with Revenue Canada (as you can with the IRS), and you don't need a lawyer to do so. Source: Have done so and won.
kennend3 4y ago
> Some US states (and my province in Canada) have labour laws where your employer generally cannot require you to pay expenses for equipment necessary to do the job. (Someone who brings their equipment to do the job is a contractor, not an employee.) I think you would be shocked at how often this happens. I once had a major Canadian bank try to make me buy a cell phone so they could avoid a minimal monthly charge for one?? HR in Canada is rife with abuse, because they are under no obligation to tell you what the laws actually are. Your ignorance of the laws works to their advantage. See "non disclosure agreements" in Canada for a prime example.

by retrac 4y ago

t0mas88 4y ago

These employees are all contractors on paper. Probably to get around the rules you mention.

retrac 4y ago
Such machinations often do not hold up, legally. If the employer simply declaring that the employee is a contractor made them a contractor, all minimum wage employees would be contractors, probably. There's usually a definition or test, either in statute or case law. In my jurisdiction, whether you have a boss or supervisor is a major factor. Contractors are given a specific task to complete and then they go do it. If you're getting daily monitoring or tasks assigned throughout the day, you're probably an employee. Like with not paying minimum wage or illegal deductions, employers often get away with it. The power imbalance is very large for such workers, and even when enforced the fines are often just a cost of doing business. In Ontario, Canada there's a couple billion dollars in unpaid wages every year, and hundreds of investigations for wilful wage nonpayment by managers, yet there has been exactly one jail sentence for it, in the last twenty years. With odds like that, I might steal too!
- joe-collins 4y ago
  And then there's Uber et al. . . .
- nikanj 4y ago
  The test is "who can afford more lawyers"
  - Spoom 4y ago
    FWIW you can appeal a contractor / employee designation with Revenue Canada (as you can with the IRS), and you don't need a lawyer to do so. Source: Have done so and won.

kennend3 4y ago

> Some US states (and my province in Canada) have labour laws where your employer generally cannot require you to pay expenses for equipment necessary to do the job. (Someone who brings their equipment to do the job is a contractor, not an employee.) I think you would be shocked at how often this happens. I once had a major Canadian bank try to make me buy a cell phone so they could avoid a minimal monthly charge for one?? HR in Canada is rife with abuse, because they are under no obligation to tell you what the laws actually are. Your ignorance of the laws works to their advantage. See "non disclosure agreements" in Canada for a prime example.