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> China, which actually has a larger navy The US has a far more advanced navy (a large proportion of Chinese ships are patrol ships without much tactical signi

by smt88 4y ago

> China, which actually has a larger navy The US has a far more advanced navy (a large proportion of Chinese ships are patrol ships without much tactical significance) and many more aircraft carriers. Aircraft are extremely important in naval conflicts.

LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
Yawn. China itself is the larger aircraft carrier. They also have advanced rocketry, which may render the other ones obsolete.
missedthecue 4y ago
China doesn't need aircraft carriers though. They aren't trying to fight wars 10,000km from home. They have hundreds of air bases in China.
- smt88 4y ago
  The US literally can't fight a war 10,000 km from "home" (a friendly country with military bases) because we have an enormous number of bases. Most importantly, we have tons of bases in Japan and South Korea[1]. 1. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/9/10/infographic-us-military-presence-around-the-world-interactive https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/9/10/infographic-us-mili...
  - missedthecue 4y ago
    One task force out of Japan is probably insufficient against the entire PLAN
SkyMarshal 4y ago
> (a large proportion of Chinese ships are patrol ships without much tactical significance) If each one is armed with a few anti-ship missiles, a swarm attack from many different directions might be a real threat to a carrier group. You either waste a ton of ordinance taking them all out, or some portion are able to launch against you.
- defrost 4y ago
  There was a genuine video put up in the last three months and then pulled of a Chinese demonstration of a "swarm navy" deployable from an AI drone unmanned carrier mother craft. It's a serious threat as everything is low low cost and big on bang. The US would be looking at defending itself from 100+ unmanned cigar boats each packed with enough explosives to make a serious dent at water level and all interoperating like a flock of birds, some drawing fire while others push through.
- helloworld11 4y ago
  As Churchill once said very wisely about war and optimism over certain tactics. "all things are always in motion simultaneously". In other words, we can't really know at all whether China's naval techniques, technologies or tactics will work well against U.S. naval power, or whether the opposite will happen, until the two actually fight for real on a major scale. With that said, nothing prevents the U.S from imitating any tactics (including swarming by tiny boats and ships) that the Chinese use effectively against the U.S and its allies in a real naval war. To name a very current example of my first point above in action 24/7, just look at the Ukraine/Russia war today. It has evolved in ways that very few people could have predicted just before or right after it started, with surprises on both sides. To highlight how the same worked at the beginning of the second world war, partially prompting Churchill's own later phrase: the air defenses of the UK were thought adequate against enemies in 1939, until they were proven to not at all be so, and only improved through very deadly trial and error by 1943. France in 1940 was thought by nearly all powers to be more than a match against a German invasion (and indeed materially it was, on paper and stationary on the ground), until it was proven to not at all work as expected in just 6 weeks. All things always shift simultaneously in ways that can confound any expectation, particularly in situations as ferociously dynamic as large wars.
- more_corn 4y ago
  We need swarm defenses stat. Being able to overwhelm air defenses with a swarm attack seriously defangs air defenses.

by smt88 4y ago

LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago

Yawn. China itself is the larger aircraft carrier. They also have advanced rocketry, which may render the other ones obsolete.

missedthecue 4y ago

China doesn't need aircraft carriers though. They aren't trying to fight wars 10,000km from home. They have hundreds of air bases in China.

smt88 4y ago
The US literally can't fight a war 10,000 km from "home" (a friendly country with military bases) because we have an enormous number of bases. Most importantly, we have tons of bases in Japan and South Korea[1]. 1. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/9/10/infographic-us-military-presence-around-the-world-interactive https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/9/10/infographic-us-mili...
- missedthecue 4y ago
  One task force out of Japan is probably insufficient against the entire PLAN

SkyMarshal 4y ago

> (a large proportion of Chinese ships are patrol ships without much tactical significance) If each one is armed with a few anti-ship missiles, a swarm attack from many different directions might be a real threat to a carrier group. You either waste a ton of ordinance taking them all out, or some portion are able to launch against you.

defrost 4y ago
There was a genuine video put up in the last three months and then pulled of a Chinese demonstration of a "swarm navy" deployable from an AI drone unmanned carrier mother craft. It's a serious threat as everything is low low cost and big on bang. The US would be looking at defending itself from 100+ unmanned cigar boats each packed with enough explosives to make a serious dent at water level and all interoperating like a flock of birds, some drawing fire while others push through.
helloworld11 4y ago
As Churchill once said very wisely about war and optimism over certain tactics. "all things are always in motion simultaneously". In other words, we can't really know at all whether China's naval techniques, technologies or tactics will work well against U.S. naval power, or whether the opposite will happen, until the two actually fight for real on a major scale. With that said, nothing prevents the U.S from imitating any tactics (including swarming by tiny boats and ships) that the Chinese use effectively against the U.S and its allies in a real naval war. To name a very current example of my first point above in action 24/7, just look at the Ukraine/Russia war today. It has evolved in ways that very few people could have predicted just before or right after it started, with surprises on both sides. To highlight how the same worked at the beginning of the second world war, partially prompting Churchill's own later phrase: the air defenses of the UK were thought adequate against enemies in 1939, until they were proven to not at all be so, and only improved through very deadly trial and error by 1943. France in 1940 was thought by nearly all powers to be more than a match against a German invasion (and indeed materially it was, on paper and stationary on the ground), until it was proven to not at all work as expected in just 6 weeks. All things always shift simultaneously in ways that can confound any expectation, particularly in situations as ferociously dynamic as large wars.
more_corn 4y ago
We need swarm defenses stat. Being able to overwhelm air defenses with a swarm attack seriously defangs air defenses.