4 ms·

>"onboarding isn't as much a priority" I hear people talk extensively about how difficult it is to get acquainted with Mastodon and how their onboarding is a b

by wheats 4y ago

>"onboarding isn't as much a priority" I hear people talk extensively about how difficult it is to get acquainted with Mastodon and how their onboarding is a big part of that problem. What exactly is the problem? What solution does that problem have? It seems to me that the issue with federated instances is that the first thing you need to do when you join is to choose an instance which is a huge choice. Mastodon starts off by explaining how federates instances work and then gives you a list of popular ones to choose from. What else should they be doing to decrease the friction here? The documentation exists and I doubt making it mandatory would help. Is it possible to make onboarding easy when learning about the federated server model and choosing an instance is an inherently difficult task? What specifically does everyone think Mastodon is doing wrong here? Is it possible for an ActivityPub/federate instance model to replace something as big as Twitter?

montebicyclelo 4y ago
> Mastodon starts off by explaining how federated instances work Exactly, most websites just give you a box to put an email and password in. Whereas here we are trying to get people to understand new concepts with words and ideas that many are not familiar with. And after reading it they still don't necessarily know how to sign up. > then gives you a list of popular instances to choose from So I've got this big list, but how do I pick which one? Since I don't know any better, I'll just pick the most popular one. Oh wait, that one isn't accepting sign ups any more.... Should I just pick the next one? Or should I just give up? Does it matter which one I pick, what if I make a wrong choice? Why are the names so random - what do they mean? Do I need to go through and read a bunch before deciding which one to sign up to? Again, compare this to most websites where you: - Go to the website - Are presented with an email/password form, which lets you make an account
TheBrokenRail 4y ago
> Mastodon starts off by explaining how federates instances work and then gives you a list of popular ones to choose from. This is kind of terrible. Now instead of just putting in your emails you have to make an impactful choice that won't be terribly easy to reverse. Now you have to check which instances have sane moderation, which instances actually have funding so they won't just die on you, which instances are fast or slow, which instances have blocked which other instances, and all the other inevitable petty drama between them. And again, this is compared to just putting in your email and not thinking about it. And this isn't even inherent to federation either! Matrix has an officially-endorsed default homeserver for people who just want to create an account (most people). You don't have to understand federation to use Matrix, it's available if you want it, but you could live without understanding any of it. This causes Matrix to have a much better on-boarding experience.
- jdlshore 4y ago
  > won’t be terribly easy to reverse As far as I know, migrating servers is in fact very easy. I haven’t done it myself, but there’s a big button to click in the interface to do so. Learning that removed a lot of the anxiety I had about being on the “wrong” server. Although I’ve been perfectly happy with my choice (mastodon.online), and even gave them a year subscription at about $9/mo.
  - allenbrunson 4y ago
    > As far as I know, migrating servers is in fact very easy. I haven’t done it myself, but there’s a big button to click in the interface to do so. i have, in fact, tried pressing that button. the experience is pretty terrible. i made a backup of my original account's data, as suggested. went through all the steps. despite that, i lost all my posts, and all the accounts i was following that did not also follow me back. and that information did not exist in the backup i made. (i am not arguing against mastodon, by the way! i am still a happy user. but it has a lot of warts.) this is making me think that my contribution to the fediverse might be to write a tool that does a real migration, the way you would expect it to be done.
    - jdlshore 4y ago
      Good to know! Thanks for sharing your experience.
standardUser 4y ago
Mastodon starts you off by forcing users to make a decision they do not understand before they can even use the platform. That should be a very obvious limitation to getting users signed up. Painfully obvious. Want a better process? Auto-assign a server, get them using the service, and then offer the option to switch servers. Educating users can work if it is an indispensable service that people need to understand out of necessity. Someone mentioned driving a car as an example. Mastodon is far from indispensable.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  Yeah this is such a core issue. For the user, it would be easiest if there was just one server and you hit “signup” and it’s all done. Problem is that picking a server is actually a big deal. Most of the mastodon servers running today won’t be running in 3 years, many of the servers have crazy rules and unchecked moderators. Ideally you’d have your own server so you don’t have to worry about who the unknown person running it is.
- wheats 4y ago
  >"Auto-assign a server" So right now I am on Mastodon as if I am going to create a new account. Here is the list of approved servers I am being presented to choose from: masto.nyc (for people living in New York City) poweredbygay.social (LGBT+ server) metalverse.social (server for metal music genre) bark.lgbt (lgbt, furry server) climatejustice.rocks (climate activism) etc. A majority of servers (including the largest ones capable of handling new users) are for special interests or otherwise have unique communities. Is the solution to hide this fact during sign-up and randomly assign only to most generic of instances? I want you to be right here that there is a solution, but hiding what instances are or that they have special purposes seems to remove a lot of the point of Mastodon. I remember when Reddit would default new users to a handful of "default subreddits" when they first signed up, but ended the practice because it typically destroyed these "default" communities while also hiding the actual purpose of signing up. Now Reddit (one of the largest sites on the internet) does what Mastodon does and forces new users to choose before using an account.
  - lmm 4y ago
woah 4y ago
It’s not clear that mastodon can do anything better. The problem is the federated architecture. Lumping server admin together with moderation and username namespacing and making the user choose it up front results in a clunky protocol design and user experience. Nostr is similar to mastodon, but the servers have no role beyond making posts available to clients. The role of the server has been reduced as much as is easily possible. The question of who pays for these has not been solved, but at least users can switch between servers instantly, and even use many at once, so the choice is not very important.

by wheats 4y ago

montebicyclelo 4y ago

> Mastodon starts off by explaining how federated instances work Exactly, most websites just give you a box to put an email and password in. Whereas here we are trying to get people to understand new concepts with words and ideas that many are not familiar with. And after reading it they still don't necessarily know how to sign up. > then gives you a list of popular instances to choose from So I've got this big list, but how do I pick which one? Since I don't know any better, I'll just pick the most popular one. Oh wait, that one isn't accepting sign ups any more.... Should I just pick the next one? Or should I just give up? Does it matter which one I pick, what if I make a wrong choice? Why are the names so random - what do they mean? Do I need to go through and read a bunch before deciding which one to sign up to? Again, compare this to most websites where you: - Go to the website - Are presented with an email/password form, which lets you make an account

TheBrokenRail 4y ago

> Mastodon starts off by explaining how federates instances work and then gives you a list of popular ones to choose from. This is kind of terrible. Now instead of just putting in your emails you have to make an impactful choice that won't be terribly easy to reverse. Now you have to check which instances have sane moderation, which instances actually have funding so they won't just die on you, which instances are fast or slow, which instances have blocked which other instances, and all the other inevitable petty drama between them. And again, this is compared to just putting in your email and not thinking about it. And this isn't even inherent to federation either! Matrix has an officially-endorsed default homeserver for people who just want to create an account (most people). You don't have to understand federation to use Matrix, it's available if you want it, but you could live without understanding any of it. This causes Matrix to have a much better on-boarding experience.

jdlshore 4y ago
> won’t be terribly easy to reverse As far as I know, migrating servers is in fact very easy. I haven’t done it myself, but there’s a big button to click in the interface to do so. Learning that removed a lot of the anxiety I had about being on the “wrong” server. Although I’ve been perfectly happy with my choice (mastodon.online), and even gave them a year subscription at about $9/mo.
- allenbrunson 4y ago
  > As far as I know, migrating servers is in fact very easy. I haven’t done it myself, but there’s a big button to click in the interface to do so. i have, in fact, tried pressing that button. the experience is pretty terrible. i made a backup of my original account's data, as suggested. went through all the steps. despite that, i lost all my posts, and all the accounts i was following that did not also follow me back. and that information did not exist in the backup i made. (i am not arguing against mastodon, by the way! i am still a happy user. but it has a lot of warts.) this is making me think that my contribution to the fediverse might be to write a tool that does a real migration, the way you would expect it to be done.
  - jdlshore 4y ago
    Good to know! Thanks for sharing your experience.

standardUser 4y ago

Mastodon starts you off by forcing users to make a decision they do not understand before they can even use the platform. That should be a very obvious limitation to getting users signed up. Painfully obvious. Want a better process? Auto-assign a server, get them using the service, and then offer the option to switch servers. Educating users can work if it is an indispensable service that people need to understand out of necessity. Someone mentioned driving a car as an example. Mastodon is far from indispensable.

Gigachad 4y ago
Yeah this is such a core issue. For the user, it would be easiest if there was just one server and you hit “signup” and it’s all done. Problem is that picking a server is actually a big deal. Most of the mastodon servers running today won’t be running in 3 years, many of the servers have crazy rules and unchecked moderators. Ideally you’d have your own server so you don’t have to worry about who the unknown person running it is.
wheats 4y ago
>"Auto-assign a server" So right now I am on Mastodon as if I am going to create a new account. Here is the list of approved servers I am being presented to choose from: masto.nyc (for people living in New York City) poweredbygay.social (LGBT+ server) metalverse.social (server for metal music genre) bark.lgbt (lgbt, furry server) climatejustice.rocks (climate activism) etc. A majority of servers (including the largest ones capable of handling new users) are for special interests or otherwise have unique communities. Is the solution to hide this fact during sign-up and randomly assign only to most generic of instances? I want you to be right here that there is a solution, but hiding what instances are or that they have special purposes seems to remove a lot of the point of Mastodon. I remember when Reddit would default new users to a handful of "default subreddits" when they first signed up, but ended the practice because it typically destroyed these "default" communities while also hiding the actual purpose of signing up. Now Reddit (one of the largest sites on the internet) does what Mastodon does and forces new users to choose before using an account.
- lmm 4y ago

woah 4y ago

It’s not clear that mastodon can do anything better. The problem is the federated architecture. Lumping server admin together with moderation and username namespacing and making the user choose it up front results in a clunky protocol design and user experience. Nostr is similar to mastodon, but the servers have no role beyond making posts available to clients. The role of the server has been reduced as much as is easily possible. The question of who pays for these has not been solved, but at least users can switch between servers instantly, and even use many at once, so the choice is not very important.