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There's no singular 'linux experience', all the problems you list are expected problems with some software on linux, but work just fine with other software syst

There's no singular 'linux experience', all the problems you list are expected problems with some software on linux, but work just fine with other software systems on linux. Unfortunately many of the defaults chosen by Ubuntu are very poor and give bad first impressions. I think that recommending Ubuntu is an anachronism from the mid to late 00s. Experience makes it all much easier, simply because you learn which software to avoid. Having this experience, linux for me is stress free and low hassle. But if you don't want to accumulate that experience, if you want to stay on a default track with the right choices made for you already, then you probably should go with your gut and get a Mac. Anyway, the "year of the linux desktop" is a joke. The very premise is an old meme that nobody should take seriously, nobody can even agree what it should mean. The year linux became viable for desktop use depends on the person doing the considering. For some it was years ago, for others it will be never.

JadeNB 4y ago
> I think that recommending Ubuntu is an anachronism from the mid to late 00s. What would you recommend as a modern-day user-friendly Linux experience? I've been looking for something not too demanding to put on an old X220.
- severine 4y ago
  MX-Linux, hands down. The most user friendly desktop distro I've used.
- uneekname 4y ago
  Not sure about performance on an X220, but I've loved Fedora workstation edition. The default Gnome setup is pretty user-friendly in my opinion, a there's a decent amount of support to be found online.
  - LarryMullins 4y ago
    I'm not certain, but "needing a bash script to change the mouse scroll speed" sounds like the kind of inanity I've come to expect from Gnome. KDE is probably a better choice for somebody with this complaint. It might also be a Wayland and/or libinput limitation.
  - tokai 4y ago
    I have used fedora on my x220 since I bought it new. Still runs perfectly.
    - JadeNB 4y ago
      HN would throttle my posting if I replied to everyone, so I'll just pick this comment, which speaks most directly to my experience, and thank everyone while thanking you. Do you remember if there were any tweaks you needed at the beginning, especially to get all the hardware working?
- LarryMullins 4y ago
  To techies who are interested in using Linux, I personally recommend OpenSUSE Tumbleweed because it has up-to-date packages and is relatively stable. Debian Stable is a good choice if you're insensitive to outdated packages. Debian Sid is alright, but in my experience has more breakage than Tumbleweed and recovery from that breakage requires more expertise (Tumbleweed automatically creates btrfs snapshots before and after every package manager action, making it easy to roll back any mistakes or bad upgrades.) To the average Joe Blow, I don't recommend any Linux distro. I only give recommendations about Linux to people who already want to use Linux for their own reasons; I don't evangelize it to people who are already content with Windows or Macs. For such people, Windows or Macs are a better choice.
  - CoolCold 4y ago
    > To the average Joe Blow, I don't recommend any Linux distro. Windows + WSL is pretty neat and very close to be the best of two worlds. The average Joe, friend of mine, doing mostly SEO stuff (so has some basic web background) was able to start using WSL to run his curl tests, running some tools like sitespeed.io in his docker and things of that sort, without leaving his lovely Windows system. So I'm pretty assured here.
- ranger207 4y ago
  Fedora. If you don't like Gnome, the Fedora KDE spin is almost as polished
- hpcjoe 4y ago
  Linux mint is brain dead simple. Everything just works. Same version runs on a 14 year old laptop as well as it does on a newer Epyc deskside workstation. There are others like it, but Mint is really quite simple to use, and quite a productive environment. There are others like it as well. I've been running linux on my desktops/laptops and servers for the past 24 years. I've not run into problems from a desktop/laptop perspective for the last 15 years. Some have, but its rare.
- sekh60 4y ago
  Agreeing with others, Fedora, partifularly the KDE spin if you want somethings a little Windows GUI like.
- blangk 4y ago
  Mint or manjaro
- jolancer 4y ago
  I agree with Linux Mint but you can just download and boot off a thumb drive to try it out yourself without actually installing anything. I would try Mint with KDE but also try a few other desktops. Maybe you will like them more.
- flatiron 4y ago
  Honestly you should take a stab at arch. There is a cli wizard installer now.
  - JadeNB 4y ago
    Arch was what I first tried, probably about a decade ago (on the same hardware). I had some networking troubles, the details of which I don't recall, and probably some other failures of understanding on my part.
    - flatiron 4y ago
      Totally agree that was your experience. The benefit now is there is a “do you want to install systemd network manager” step which if you say yes will significantly ease your setup. My family and friends I buy used thinkpads and install arch with a windows vm and honestly nobody blinks an eye. 99% of what people do is a web browser so just throw chrome/chromium on there and make sure KDE is setup to bug a bit for updates and yer fine. I won’t go back to giving windows laptops out.
- bratwurst3000 4y ago
  Open suse leap or tumbleweed for work, depending on your situation. For home use something like mint. I dont do banking on my computer or money stuff. For that I use my Iphone
hyperpape 4y ago
> There's no singular 'linux experience' True, there’s two: 1. Complaining about your experience, only to be told that someone else doesn’t have problems because they’re better at it than you. 2. Being the guy who says he’s better.
- LarryMullins 4y ago
  And then there's this guy, who gets mad at people who share positive experiences because he thinks the discussion is the rightful territory of those who want to complain.
  - aussiesnack 4y ago
    The apparently innocent "sharing" of positive experiences - so sweet! so nice! - is from Linux self-identifiers all too often a very crude backhanded "you're wrong about the problems you claim to have with Linux, and if you're not wrong, then you're at least thick or lazy".
    - LarryMullins 4y ago
      You've pulled these insults out of thin air. I have no animosity towards Windows or Mac users, nor for those that might hypothetically like Linux but understandably have better things to do with their time than learn the ins and outs of it.
      - aussiesnack 4y ago
        Apologies if that seemed directed at you personally, which wasn't my intent. Attribute it to HN trigger-finger. It is a general and widespread phenomenon though that anyone who has been less than positive towards Linux on HN or anywhere will recognise. I don't think it reflects animosity towards users of mainstream OS's so much as defensiveness, particularly from strongly self-identified Linux advocates. Which is all a bit daft, because it's (a) perfectly obvious that Linux has plenty of problems (how could something as vast as an OS not?), and (b) that doesn't make it any less the clear choice for some classes of user (like myself).

JadeNB 4y ago

> I think that recommending Ubuntu is an anachronism from the mid to late 00s. What would you recommend as a modern-day user-friendly Linux experience? I've been looking for something not too demanding to put on an old X220.

severine 4y ago
MX-Linux, hands down. The most user friendly desktop distro I've used.
uneekname 4y ago
Not sure about performance on an X220, but I've loved Fedora workstation edition. The default Gnome setup is pretty user-friendly in my opinion, a there's a decent amount of support to be found online.
- LarryMullins 4y ago
  I'm not certain, but "needing a bash script to change the mouse scroll speed" sounds like the kind of inanity I've come to expect from Gnome. KDE is probably a better choice for somebody with this complaint. It might also be a Wayland and/or libinput limitation.
- tokai 4y ago
  I have used fedora on my x220 since I bought it new. Still runs perfectly.
  - JadeNB 4y ago
    HN would throttle my posting if I replied to everyone, so I'll just pick this comment, which speaks most directly to my experience, and thank everyone while thanking you. Do you remember if there were any tweaks you needed at the beginning, especially to get all the hardware working?
LarryMullins 4y ago
To techies who are interested in using Linux, I personally recommend OpenSUSE Tumbleweed because it has up-to-date packages and is relatively stable. Debian Stable is a good choice if you're insensitive to outdated packages. Debian Sid is alright, but in my experience has more breakage than Tumbleweed and recovery from that breakage requires more expertise (Tumbleweed automatically creates btrfs snapshots before and after every package manager action, making it easy to roll back any mistakes or bad upgrades.) To the average Joe Blow, I don't recommend any Linux distro. I only give recommendations about Linux to people who already want to use Linux for their own reasons; I don't evangelize it to people who are already content with Windows or Macs. For such people, Windows or Macs are a better choice.
- CoolCold 4y ago
  > To the average Joe Blow, I don't recommend any Linux distro. Windows + WSL is pretty neat and very close to be the best of two worlds. The average Joe, friend of mine, doing mostly SEO stuff (so has some basic web background) was able to start using WSL to run his curl tests, running some tools like sitespeed.io in his docker and things of that sort, without leaving his lovely Windows system. So I'm pretty assured here.
ranger207 4y ago
Fedora. If you don't like Gnome, the Fedora KDE spin is almost as polished
hpcjoe 4y ago
Linux mint is brain dead simple. Everything just works. Same version runs on a 14 year old laptop as well as it does on a newer Epyc deskside workstation. There are others like it, but Mint is really quite simple to use, and quite a productive environment. There are others like it as well. I've been running linux on my desktops/laptops and servers for the past 24 years. I've not run into problems from a desktop/laptop perspective for the last 15 years. Some have, but its rare.
sekh60 4y ago
Agreeing with others, Fedora, partifularly the KDE spin if you want somethings a little Windows GUI like.
blangk 4y ago
Mint or manjaro
jolancer 4y ago
I agree with Linux Mint but you can just download and boot off a thumb drive to try it out yourself without actually installing anything. I would try Mint with KDE but also try a few other desktops. Maybe you will like them more.
flatiron 4y ago
Honestly you should take a stab at arch. There is a cli wizard installer now.
- JadeNB 4y ago
  Arch was what I first tried, probably about a decade ago (on the same hardware). I had some networking troubles, the details of which I don't recall, and probably some other failures of understanding on my part.
  - flatiron 4y ago
    Totally agree that was your experience. The benefit now is there is a “do you want to install systemd network manager” step which if you say yes will significantly ease your setup. My family and friends I buy used thinkpads and install arch with a windows vm and honestly nobody blinks an eye. 99% of what people do is a web browser so just throw chrome/chromium on there and make sure KDE is setup to bug a bit for updates and yer fine. I won’t go back to giving windows laptops out.
bratwurst3000 4y ago
Open suse leap or tumbleweed for work, depending on your situation. For home use something like mint. I dont do banking on my computer or money stuff. For that I use my Iphone

hyperpape 4y ago

> There's no singular 'linux experience' True, there’s two: 1. Complaining about your experience, only to be told that someone else doesn’t have problems because they’re better at it than you. 2. Being the guy who says he’s better.

LarryMullins 4y ago
And then there's this guy, who gets mad at people who share positive experiences because he thinks the discussion is the rightful territory of those who want to complain.
- aussiesnack 4y ago
  The apparently innocent "sharing" of positive experiences - so sweet! so nice! - is from Linux self-identifiers all too often a very crude backhanded "you're wrong about the problems you claim to have with Linux, and if you're not wrong, then you're at least thick or lazy".
  - LarryMullins 4y ago
    You've pulled these insults out of thin air. I have no animosity towards Windows or Mac users, nor for those that might hypothetically like Linux but understandably have better things to do with their time than learn the ins and outs of it.
    - aussiesnack 4y ago
      Apologies if that seemed directed at you personally, which wasn't my intent. Attribute it to HN trigger-finger. It is a general and widespread phenomenon though that anyone who has been less than positive towards Linux on HN or anywhere will recognise. I don't think it reflects animosity towards users of mainstream OS's so much as defensiveness, particularly from strongly self-identified Linux advocates. Which is all a bit daft, because it's (a) perfectly obvious that Linux has plenty of problems (how could something as vast as an OS not?), and (b) that doesn't make it any less the clear choice for some classes of user (like myself).