6 ms·

I would prefer to keep to option to at least be able to buy a more water resistant phone

rolph 4y ago
this can, and is done often, no glue needed, just O-rings and small aperature sizes, so water stays out due to surface tension. GPSers and FRS radios have done this for a long time. cell phones did this until later in the "slim is in " marketing campaign.
- rahimnathwani 4y ago
  Is there a recommended maintenance schedule for replacing or lubricating these O-rings? I'm guessing that most owners of waterproof handheld radios are more 'handy' than the general population.
  - rolph 4y ago
    depends on materials and environment, most people can fingernail them out and push a new one in. they can vary from self destruct, to immortal service life depending on material, and use.
  - lb1lf 4y ago
    Having a number of portable V/UHF radios, GPS receivers and assorted other bits of outdoor electronic gear, I have had a tiny bit of acid-free vaseline on any gasket or O-ring I could find annually. Has worked a charm so far. (With today's rubber being what it is, I guess I could safely at least double that interval - but it only takes a few minutes, and the vaseline is effectively free, so...
idle_zealot 4y ago
I'm sure it's technically possible to build a phone where the battery is easily replaceable and is highly water resistant. Difficult? Sure, but possible. If this regulation really does lead phone manufacturers to go back to the days of hand-removable backs or slide-out batteries then I'm sure they'll be investigating in R&D to get their IPwhatever ratings back.
- Brian_K_White 4y ago
  Not even difficult. They can and do make buttons, headphone and usb jacks, and even mics and speakers. Battery contacts are nothing at all.
  - microtonal 4y ago
    Example: many GPSr units have replaceable AA batteries and support IPX7. It's not exactly rocket science -- a good locking mechanism and a rubber seal.
    - lb1lf 4y ago
      The GPSr crowd tend to be less obsessed by their devices being a fraction of a millimeter thinner than last year's model, though. (Much as I love a good locking mechanism and a rubber seal, I can see it making the phone a little thicker than it would be was the battery non-removable.)
      - witheld 4y ago
        A law requiring everyone to have replaceable batteries puts everyone on even ground- phones will continue to be exactly as thin as they can be.
izacus 4y ago
Why are you trotting out this false idea that replaceable batteries somehow exclude water resistance? Why the dishonest weasel phrasing?
- code_runner 4y ago
  [flagged]
- CamperBob2 4y ago
  Why the false idea that replaceable batteries don't demand serious compromises in other areas of product design? If EU bureaucrats can design a better phone, well... why don't they?
  - falcolas 4y ago
    Replaceable batteries doesn't prevent the creation of water resistant phones - the topic specifically under discussion here.
    - BenjiWiebe 4y ago
      In fact I'm writing this comment on a waterproof 2014 Samsung Galaxy S5. It's got a rubber gasket around the back cover to keep the water out.
    - CamperBob2 4y ago
      I didn't say they did.
  - everdrive 4y ago
    A "better" design is one where the consumer can service the battery without having to use special tools and a heat gun. It is explicitly _not_ one which looks "sleeker" in the marketing materials.
    - Gigachad 4y ago
      You can do it with a hair drier and the suction cap that usually comes with the battery. Or you can take it to a store at any mall and they do it on the spot for you. It's one of the easier things to fix. I could swap a phone battery easier than I could replace my door handle or repair clothing.
names_are_hard 4y ago
You can buy a Casio watch for about 20 USD that claims to resist water to 100 meters. The battery replacement requires a small screwdriver, does that count as user-replaceable?
- crazygringo 4y ago
  It's well known that Casio and similar watches will usually lose water resistance after the battery is changed. The advertised water resistance is only for the original battery, case unopened.
Brian_K_White 4y ago
false dichotomy
squarefoot 4y ago
My father's underwater flashlights from the 1970s had replaceable batteries and were quite water resistant, I mean from sea water, not just rain. Of course a phone makes it more difficult both for its shape and size, but hey, technology progressed a bit in 50 years.
- happyopossum 4y ago
  And they were HUGE. With giant o-rings that wear out or need to be lubricated regularly, and would fail if they weren’t.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    Underwater flashlights sooner than not suffer from outgassing and tend to have pressure relief valves and multiple o-rings to keep the water out. O-rings do need a bit of maintenance but it's not a huge burden.
dale_glass 4y ago
You can have water resistance and disassembly. My DSLR is water resistant, despite having multiple ports, moving parts, and a removable lens.

this can, and is done often, no glue needed, just O-rings and small aperature sizes, so water stays out due to surface tension. GPSers and FRS radios have done this for a long time. cell phones did this until later in the "slim is in " marketing campaign.

rahimnathwani 4y ago
Is there a recommended maintenance schedule for replacing or lubricating these O-rings? I'm guessing that most owners of waterproof handheld radios are more 'handy' than the general population.
- rolph 4y ago
  depends on materials and environment, most people can fingernail them out and push a new one in. they can vary from self destruct, to immortal service life depending on material, and use.
- lb1lf 4y ago
  Having a number of portable V/UHF radios, GPS receivers and assorted other bits of outdoor electronic gear, I have had a tiny bit of acid-free vaseline on any gasket or O-ring I could find annually. Has worked a charm so far. (With today's rubber being what it is, I guess I could safely at least double that interval - but it only takes a few minutes, and the vaseline is effectively free, so...

idle_zealot 4y ago

I'm sure it's technically possible to build a phone where the battery is easily replaceable and is highly water resistant. Difficult? Sure, but possible. If this regulation really does lead phone manufacturers to go back to the days of hand-removable backs or slide-out batteries then I'm sure they'll be investigating in R&D to get their IPwhatever ratings back.

Brian_K_White 4y ago
Not even difficult. They can and do make buttons, headphone and usb jacks, and even mics and speakers. Battery contacts are nothing at all.
- microtonal 4y ago
  Example: many GPSr units have replaceable AA batteries and support IPX7. It's not exactly rocket science -- a good locking mechanism and a rubber seal.
  - lb1lf 4y ago
    The GPSr crowd tend to be less obsessed by their devices being a fraction of a millimeter thinner than last year's model, though. (Much as I love a good locking mechanism and a rubber seal, I can see it making the phone a little thicker than it would be was the battery non-removable.)
    - witheld 4y ago
      A law requiring everyone to have replaceable batteries puts everyone on even ground- phones will continue to be exactly as thin as they can be.

izacus 4y ago

Why are you trotting out this false idea that replaceable batteries somehow exclude water resistance? Why the dishonest weasel phrasing?

code_runner 4y ago
[flagged]
CamperBob2 4y ago
Why the false idea that replaceable batteries don't demand serious compromises in other areas of product design? If EU bureaucrats can design a better phone, well... why don't they?
- falcolas 4y ago
  Replaceable batteries doesn't prevent the creation of water resistant phones - the topic specifically under discussion here.
  - BenjiWiebe 4y ago
    In fact I'm writing this comment on a waterproof 2014 Samsung Galaxy S5. It's got a rubber gasket around the back cover to keep the water out.
  - CamperBob2 4y ago
    I didn't say they did.
- everdrive 4y ago
  A "better" design is one where the consumer can service the battery without having to use special tools and a heat gun. It is explicitly _not_ one which looks "sleeker" in the marketing materials.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    You can do it with a hair drier and the suction cap that usually comes with the battery. Or you can take it to a store at any mall and they do it on the spot for you. It's one of the easier things to fix. I could swap a phone battery easier than I could replace my door handle or repair clothing.

names_are_hard 4y ago

You can buy a Casio watch for about 20 USD that claims to resist water to 100 meters. The battery replacement requires a small screwdriver, does that count as user-replaceable?

crazygringo 4y ago
It's well known that Casio and similar watches will usually lose water resistance after the battery is changed. The advertised water resistance is only for the original battery, case unopened.

Brian_K_White 4y ago

false dichotomy

squarefoot 4y ago

My father's underwater flashlights from the 1970s had replaceable batteries and were quite water resistant, I mean from sea water, not just rain. Of course a phone makes it more difficult both for its shape and size, but hey, technology progressed a bit in 50 years.

happyopossum 4y ago
And they were HUGE. With giant o-rings that wear out or need to be lubricated regularly, and would fail if they weren’t.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  Underwater flashlights sooner than not suffer from outgassing and tend to have pressure relief valves and multiple o-rings to keep the water out. O-rings do need a bit of maintenance but it's not a huge burden.

dale_glass 4y ago

You can have water resistance and disassembly. My DSLR is water resistant, despite having multiple ports, moving parts, and a removable lens.